I hope I (don't) die before I get old...

[Gob]

Why can't we imagine ourselves getting old?


By Tom de Castella & Virginia Brown BBC News Magazine

A girl born in the UK today has a one-in-three chance of reaching 100 and a boy has a one-in-four chance. But can people really comprehend what that means?

The biblical figure Methuselah supposedly lived for 969 years. But old age isn't for everyone as the Who demonstrated in their 1965 hit My Generation with its provocative line "hope I die before I get old".

Nearly a half century later, young Britons are facing - if not the fate of Methuselah - then a life of scarcely believable length.

It's not just the recently born who will live longer. The projections from the Department for Work and Pensions suggest that more than a fifth of women currently aged 40, and about 14% of their male equivalents, will reach their 100th birthday.

Clocking up three figures has previously been regarded as remarkable enough to merit a telegram from the Queen. But soon she or her successor may have to raise the age requirement.

By 2066, there will be half a million centenarians and some even think the DWP figures err on the conservative side. A study in the Lancet last year suggested that half of babies born after 2000 will reach 100.

The practical issue is pensions. "We simply can't look to our grandparents' experience of retirement as a model for our own," says pensions minister Steve Webb. "We will live longer and we will have to save more."

Our ageing populations require a revolution in the way that social and economic policy operates, according to Joseph Coughlin, an age researcher at MIT. "We need a vision that says ageing is not just about the frail," he told the Financial Times last month. "Ageing is about all of us, and how we keep people productive for as long as possible."

The challenge is as much conceptual as practical.

As Leon Trotsky put it: "Old age is the most unexpected of all the things that happen to a man." Behavioural thinkers believe that most people are incapable of imagining themselves getting old, one reason why people fail to invest sufficiently in a pension.

The theory of "discounting" - delaying payment in return for a bigger financial reward - has been used to explain this.

In one US experiment, researchers put five-year-olds in a room with a marshmallow. The children were told that if it could wait 15 minutes without touching it, they would be offered a second marshmallow. Despite the inducement, the vast majority of the children ate it before the time limit was up.

It underlines the idea that humans distinguish between our present and future selves. "It's been shown that people's identification with themselves diminishes as they look into the future," says Daniel Read, professor of behavioural science at Warwick Business School. "It comes down to not caring about ourselves in the future."

Living longer is one thing, but the quality of the extra years is what counts, he believes. And no-one knows if these extra years will be spent working for longer and being mentally and physically active, or finding oneself frail and bed-ridden.

"We may not be able to expect people to work much longer than they already are," Read warns. "If the productive years remain about the same but the lifespan expands that becomes a major issue for society."

The novelist Martin Amis argued last year that the answer might be "euthanasia booths on every street corner". As he explained at a public Q&A session the swelling ranks of the elderly would not only be a drain on resources for younger generations, but lead to an undignified end to one's life.

The biologist Lewis Wolpert, who wrote about old age in his recent book You're Looking Very Well, dismisses Amis's position.

He says it wasn't until he retired, aged 75, that he first felt old. Indeed our definition of old, advances further up the age range as we do. Now aged 81, he has accepted he counts as old.

"The point about age is that things change," he explains. "The most striking thing is that in the street everyone passes me now - I've slowed down."

He has begun to forget things, names and faces, and Alzheimer's is a real fear. "I do think about death every now and again. It's not terrible being old. But I miss work and being around colleagues and students."

He is sceptical about the latest figures. But if a significant number of the population really do start living past a hundred, it may not be something to celebrate. "I don't think they will be fulfilling lives. Who's going to employ you at 80 or 90?"

He never expected to get old. "As a young man I never gave getting old a moment's thought." But this is no bad thing, he believes. There is no point worrying about ageing when you're young. Best to enjoy your youth and deal with the aches, pains, and memory loss when it happens.

Steve Jones, senior research fellow at University College London, says that in evolutionary terms the old are irrelevant.

"The point of evolution is preserving DNA. A chick is the egg's way of making another egg. Once the DNA molecule is passed on, the chick becomes almost irrelevant to the process."

Within the animal kingdom, apart from a few species like elephants, extreme old age is a rarity. Even species we think of as being genetically close to ourselves, like chimpanzees, die young through fighting each other, lack of food or attacks by predators.

But humans are going through scarcely credible advance in longevity. As primitive hunter gatherers, our life expectancy was in the 20s or 30s, Prof Jones guesses.

During Shakespeare's time only one in three children made it to the age of 21. By Charles Darwin's era, the rate had improved to one in two. Now for the first time, there are more people in Britain over 45 than under 45.

"The progress has been astonishing," he notes. For the last 50 or so years life expectancy has been increasing at a rate of six hours a day."

Everyone says it can't last, and yet we keep getting older and older. Who's to say it's going to stop?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14412025

[The Hen]

I just hope I remain physically and mentally fit and able as long as I live.

The age thing would be a pain in the arse with dementia, or extreme crippling arthritis.

[Miles]

Personally I don't want to outlive my friends and family. As it is lately I have become rather severly limited in my ability to function. Arthritis has me firmly in it's grip and walking has become extremely difficult which is something that has me seriously concerned as my family definately does not have the ability to care for me if I become wheel chair bound. At 61 I did not expect to be in such deterorating condition. Oh well as Ron White says if life gives you lemons make lemonade and find someone with a bottle of vodka.

[Gob]

Miles, I'm sad to hear that mate. There are many over the counter medicines that can help with arthritis, though I'm probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs here. I take high doses of fish oil, and glucosamine.

[rubato]

Why can't we imagine ourselves getting old?

... "

I can't imagine any reason to do so. Either I'll never find out, and imagining is pointlessly morbid, or I'll find out with perfect certainty.


Most supplements have no effect on actual aging although they might reduce present anxiety about imaginary future aging.


yrs,
rubato

[Miles]

Strop, unfortunately with the combination of heart disease, arthirits and diabetes there are not too many options medication wise. I am just paying the price for all the fun I had all my life. If I had to do it all over again, I would.

There are two types of old people you see sitting around. Those with frowns because they are thinking about all the things they wished they had done and those smiling remembering all the things they did. I will be smiling.

[dgs49]

I attended a seminar a few weeks ago and the presenter stated that parallel studies conducted in 2003 concluded, based on statistical and medical evidence, that the average baby born in the U.S. in 2003 who does not die in some sort of accident, can expect to live to 130 years old. Sorry, I do not have any details on the studies - they were just a passing mention by the lecturer, who was speaking on a completely different subject.

I will be 62 years old next month. I have always exercised and never smoked, and I haven't had more than two drinks on a single day since I was 23 years old.

I have:

An enlarged prostate that requires daily medication for the rest of my life.

Mild hypertension that requires a medication to which I am, in effect, addicted (heart palpitations if I stop taking it).

Assorted allergies which will never go away.

A digestive system that requires constant attention to what I eat and when.

Chronic foot pain requiring surgery that I will never have (due to downtime issues).

"Exercise" injuries including right knee (acute), left elbow, left shoulder, and right shoulder (now dormant).

Occasional back and hip pain, indicating coming difficulties.

Three broken fingers, now healed, with frozen joints.

A collection of teeth that will require significant work in the foreseeable future.

If and when I get my right knee taken care of, I will be able to continue my normal life activities which include running, bicycling, tennis, golf, bowling, weightlifting, and frequent naps.

As the pain, discomforts, and general deterioration continue I am ever more committed to a Final Solution involving self-help. Not soon, but eventually.

I have NO interest in living to be 100 years old. Or 90.

[Gob]

Strop, unfortunately with the combination of heart disease, arthirits and diabetes there are not too many options medication wise.

Miles old mate, all of those would benefit from high dose fish oil suppliments.

There are two types of old people you see sitting around. Those with frowns because they are thinking about all the things they wished they had done and those smiling remembering all the things they did. I will be smiling.

Good on you mate, my respect for that!!!

As the pain, discomforts, and general deterioration continue I am ever more committed to a Final Solution involving self-help. Not soon, but eventually.

I have NO interest in living to be 100 years old. Or 90.

I respect that too.

Funnily enough, having been a very active and fit person all my life, the last two months have given me some pause for thought. Gimping about on a walking stick, unable to kneel or walk very far, with pain from my knee hip and shoulder, unable to sleep at night as the shoulder wakes me up, unable to exercise, unable to do the hobbies which gave me so much satisfaction, puts everything in a new context.
Putting my back out last weekend was the icing on the cake.

It certainly gave me a perspective on where you are coming from Dave.

This Xmas we are going back to the UK. Each time have returned to the UK,(this will be the forth) I have spent three months preparing for it, with total abstinence from alcohol, healthy eating, and a more intense exercise regime. Will I do the same this year? Yes I think I will. But I’ll do it with a new perspective on my fitness.

BTW: I think being in good knick helped minimise the damage to me from my altercation with the taxi.

[Scooter]

Having lived for a while with a terminal disease that (at the time) was going to kill me within a few years, I learned that while in principle I jealously guarded the right to end it all if reached a point where it got to much to handle, the reality turned out to be that when it seemed to be reaching that point, I was never ready to give up and kept wishing for more time. I'm not sure what it would take for me to be ready to die, I suspect I'm the type of person who will never achieve the kind of inner peace that is necessary for that.

[loCAtek]

Miles, have you looked into an arthritis clinic that does Stem Cell Treatment? I've heard many promising things.

[dgs49]

Gob, on what occasions would you want to kneel?

I do it every Sunday.

I had my MRI done at 0630 this morning, and will be back with the doctor next Tuesday, noon. I expect him to say I need arthroscopic surgery to repair meniscus tear.

Although I switched last year from running long distances to interval training, I still believe a major part of my regimen must be devoted to heart and lung conditioning. With a bad knee, I have not been able to do anything that gets my heart to the range that I want. Neither running nor biking is an option.

Also, I will not be able to burn off the calories as well without this "cardio," so I will either have to permanently reduce my monstrous calorie intake or I will certainly become obese. In the meantime, I have been taking 4 mi/60min walks a couple times a week.

Hmmm.

[Timster]

Try swimming.

[Gob]

Gob, on what occasions would you want to kneel?

I do it every Sunday.

Must resist the temptation, must resist the temptation, must resist the temptation, must resist the temptation.

I had my MRI done at 0630 this morning, and will be back with the doctor next Tuesday, noon. I expect him to say I need arthroscopic surgery to repair meniscus tear.

Although I switched last year from running long distances to interval training, I still believe a major part of my regimen must be devoted to heart and lung conditioning. With a bad knee, I have not been able to do anything that gets my heart to the range that I want. Neither running nor biking is an option.

Also, I will not be able to burn off the calories as well without this "cardio," so I will either have to permanently reduce my monstrous calorie intake or I will certainly become obese. In the meantime, I have been taking 4 mi/60min walks a couple times a week.

Hmmm.

Best of luck with all of that Dave (sincerely). Cross trainers are good for calorie burning without too much impact on joints.

[Scooter]

Cardio for Knee Problems

I particularly liked the aqua jogging suggestion. It sounds like they are talking about jogging in place, but I can remember having to run widths of the pool in swimming practice and it was definitely a workout, while putting little to no stress on joints.