New colored photos from the 40s found

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Gob
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by Gob »

loCAtek wrote: It was good old-fashioned racism, that wouldn't put brave Asian, Hispanic nor African, etc. Americans on a War poster.
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So so far, everything she has said on "Rosie the Riveter" has been a figment of her imagination.

Dumb as a sack of shit.
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by quaddriver »

the claim is "there was not overt racism in the us military in ww2"?

Im not thinking that is true....

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

Sean wrote:
And yet when I posted the information on Miss Doyle you dismissed her as a "propaganda stunt"...

Yup, She was a pretty white girl, who didn't work very hard or for very long, and her poster was not a National Campaign for 'Rosie the Riveter'. She was NOT like so many other colored women, that the real Rosies were.

So, I dismissed her.

Yea right, there wasn't racism during WWII
[edit] Racial tensions

The large-scale movement of blacks from the rural South to defense centers in the North (and some in the South) led to small-scale local confrontations over jobs and housing shortages. Washington feared a major race war. The cities were relatively peaceful; much-feared large-scale race riots did not happen, but there was small-scale violence, as in the 1943 race riot in Detroit and the anti-Mexican Zoot Suit Riots in Los Angeles in 1943.[29]

Where's a Black, Hispanic or Asian Rosie the Riveter, which is what we talking about?
Last edited by loCAtek on Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by The Hen »

Shall I now write to the National Women's History Museum to let them know that they are wrong about Rose Will Monroe, or will you?

And in answer to your late addition to your post, we weren't talking about a Black, Hispanic or Asian Rosie the Riveter. We were talking about the "real" Rosie the Riveter. The 'real' Rosie, according to the Museum, was white.

You were the one that decided to get all jumpy on the race card. No one is denying that coloured woman from all nationalities were riverters for the cause.

However, this was the 40's. There was racism, especially in America. But the real Rosie was a white woman.

(And all because Aardy wanted a tatt of the poster girl.) :roll:
Last edited by The Hen on Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gob
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by Gob »

So first Rosie the riveter was a black welder..
loCAtek wrote: Rosie rocks! Luv her!

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...and she was most likely colored!

Then she didn't exist...
loCAtek wrote:[Yup, She was a pretty white girl, who didn't work very hard or for very long, and her poster was not a National Campaign for 'Rosie the Riveter'. She was NOT like so many other colored women, that the real Rosies were.

So, I dismissed her.

Yea right, there wasn't racism during WWII


Where's a Black, Hispanic or Asian Rosie the Riveter, which is what we talking about?
Just like her stupid idea that there were no black Americans on war posters.
loCAtek wrote: It was good old-fashioned racism, that wouldn't put brave Asian, Hispanic nor African, etc. Americans on a War poster.

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Lo doesn't know if it's arsehole or breakfast time again...
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

The Hen wrote:Shall I now write to the National Women's History Museum to let them know that they are wrong about Rose Will Monroe, or will you?

And in answer to your late addition to your post, we weren't talking about a Black, Hispanic or Asian Rosie the Riveter. We were talking about the "real" Rosie the Riveter. The 'real' Rosie, according to the Museum, was white.

You were the one that decided to get all jumpy on the race card. No one is denying that coloured woman from all nationalities were riverters for the cause.

However, this was the 40's. There was racism, especially in America. But the real Rosie was a white woman.

(And all because Aardy wanted a tatt of the poster girl.) :roll:
Nope, cause I know my history;
“Rosie the Riveter” is the name of a fictional character who came to symbolize the millions of real women who filled America’s factories, munitions plants, and shipyards during World War II. In later years, Rosie also became an iconic American image in the fight to broaden women’s civil rights.

http://www.pophistorydig.com/?p=877





A short film presented by Ford Motor Company in tribute to women workers during World War II. Specifically a tribute to the women working at the Willow Run bomber plant in Ypsilanti, Michigan primarily assembling B-24 Liberator bombers.

Any summation of this film would be remiss without mention of "Rosie the Riveter". Rosie was not any single woman but an amalgamation of all women who claimed jobs traditionally held by men before the war. Examples* of individual women do exist in the campaign however. Notables would include Rose Will Monroe, an employee of Willow Run, who appeared in several famous promotional posters and films. The well recognized "We can do it!" poster most frequently identified with the "Rosie" image was modeled on Geraldine Doyle, a metal press operator of American Broach & Machine during the period.

Production: Scientific Films, Inc.
Narration: Truman Bradley
Written by: Walter Anthony
Musical Direction: Edward Paul
*Examples of young, pretty white women. Even the movie has no Black women working.

How would I know? I only live about an hour away from the Rosie the Riveter National Trust and Memorial



Interesting trivia on why Rockwell's Rosie wasn't as big;
Rockwell’s Saturday Evening Post Rosie was widely disseminated during the war. In addition to the magazine’s 3 million-plus circulation, Rockwell’s Rosie was also displayed in other publications, including The Art Digest of July 1, 1943. Rockwell’s original “Rosie” — donated to the U.S. War Loan Drive — briefly went on a public tour. However, Rockwell’s image of Rosie might have enjoyed an even wider circulation had it not been for the actions of the magazine’s publisher, Curtis Publishing. Curtis initially used the phrase “Rosie the Riveter” on posters it distributed in 1943 to news dealers throughout the United States advertising the Post issue with Rockwell’s painting on the cover. However, according to author Penny Colman, within a few days, Curtis sent telegrams to the news dealers ordering them to destroy the poster and return a notarized statement attesting to the fact that they had. Curtis issued its retraction because it feared being sued for copyright infringement of the recently released song “Rosie the Riveter.” Rockwell’s painting of Rosie was then donated to the U.S. Treasury Department’s War Loan Drive, and then went on a tour for public display in various cities across the country.

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by Gob »

So what actually is the fucking point you are making dumbass?

First you tell us Rosie was coloured, then you tell us she wasn't.

Now you're telling us she's a fictional character (we knew)

Get a fucking grip you silly cow.

"I know my history" states the retarded fuckwit who claimed;
loCAtek wrote:
It was good old-fashioned racism, that wouldn't put brave Asian, Hispanic nor African, etc. Americans on a War poster.
Hey Lo, there's a dozen of these posters which do not exist above...


First she tells us;
loCAtek wrote: Rosie rocks! Luv her!
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...and she was most likely colored!
then she tells us;

loCAtek wrote:

*Examples of young, pretty white women. Even the movie has no Black women working.

How would I know? I only live about an hour away from the Rosie the Riveter National Trust and Memorial

Lo, why not just shut the fuck up and stop embarrassing yourself? Hmmmm...
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

Already addressed that Gob, I said we were talking about women workers of WWII, not the soldiers. Oops, did I speak generally for a moment, my bad.

Pls watch the second video, it explains why the Workforce recruitment posters were aimed at white women.

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by Gob »

loCAtek wrote:Already addressed that Gob, I said we were talking about women workers of WWII, not the soldiers. Oops, did I speak generally for a moment, my bad.
No, we were talking about the Rosie the riveter poster.

You were talking about all sorts of shit you made up.

Evidence that "Rosie the riveter" was black. None.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by The Hen »

loCAtek wrote:
The Hen wrote:Shall I now write to the National Women's History Museum to let them know that they are wrong about Rose Will Monroe, or will you?

And in answer to your late addition to your post, we weren't talking about a Black, Hispanic or Asian Rosie the Riveter. We were talking about the "real" Rosie the Riveter. The 'real' Rosie, according to the Museum, was white.

You were the one that decided to get all jumpy on the race card. No one is denying that coloured woman from all nationalities were riverters for the cause.

However, this was the 40's. There was racism, especially in America. But the real Rosie was a white woman.

(And all because Aardy wanted a tatt of the poster girl.) :roll:
Nope, cause I know my history;

Incorrect Lo. She wasn't a fictional charaqcter. She was based on a real person. A real white woman.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Go to my link and review what you have wrong.

Then you may apologise for the first time in your history on this Board.

:D
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

Um sean the examples were provided by the recruitment propaganda, not I. My position was that the real 'Rosies' were black, Hispanic etc.
Pls watch the second video, it explains why the Workforce recruitment posters were aimed at white women.

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

You didn't watch the second video, Gob, Hen, sean did you?

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by The Hen »

loCAtek wrote:You didn't watch the second video, Gob, Hen, sean did you?
I don't play videos Lo.

You tell me what you think it said.

Cheers
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

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Rose Will Monroe was a Kentucky teenager. She was widowed with two children, when she moved to Ypsilanti, Michigan to take a job at Ford Motor Company’s enormous Willow Run aircraft factory as a riveter.

She played the part of "Rosie the Riveter" in a government film promoting war bonds.

Rose was a riveter who played the riveter known as 'Rosie the Riveter'.

Seems simple enough to me.

It was confirmed by the National Women's History Musuem and I am sure they have seen your little clip.

I bet Aardy is glad he didn't bother getting that tatt.

:D :lol:
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

Well, the video was from the Library of Congress, I think they said it best.

Did you open and read all my links then you'll find this;
Real Life Rosies
In June 1943, about two weeks after Rockwell’s Saturday Evening Post cover appeared on newsstands, the press picked up the story of a woman worker named Rose Bonavita-Hickey. She and partner Jennie Florio, drilled 900 holes and placed a record 3,345 rivets in a torpedo-bombing Avenger aircraft at the former General Motors Eastern Aircraft Division in North Tarrytown, New York. ...


In early August 1943, Life magazine featured a full cover photograph of a woman steelworker, along with an inside photo-story spread of other “Rosie” steelworkers, some quite dramatic. The photographs were taken by Margaret Bourke-White, the famous Life photojournalist who was the first female war correspondent and the first woman to be allowed to work in combat zones during World War II.
Note the plurals http://www.pophistorydig.com/?p=877

I think your assertion is like saying 'The use of the WWII term, G.I. Joe was based on a real G.I. named Joe; and not a slang reference to mean military servicemen overall.'
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by The Hen »

Here is some more information from the American National Biography On-Line.

They credit four women with being Rosie. Surprisingly the most culturally diverse of them was an Italian, not a black or a hispanic.
Rosie the Riveter (fl. 1942-1945), Rose Will Monroe (1920-1997), and Rose Bonavita (1921-1966), iconic figure of the women who worked in defense industries during World War II, was a composite of the experiences of many real women, including Rose Bonavita, Rosalind P. Walter, Geraldine Hoff Doyle, and Rose Will Monroe.

During World War II the term "Rosie" was used to refer to all women who worked in defense industries and not just riveters.

The "Real" Rosies: Rose Bonavita
The composite figure of Rosie was based on a group of women, most of whom were named Rose, who varied in class, ethnicity, geography, and background. The daughter of Italian immigrants, Bonavita (1921-1966) worked as a riveter at the General Motors Eastern Aircraft Division in North Tarrytown, New York. She and her partner, Jennie Florio, set a production record by drilling nine hundred holes and driving thirty-three hundred rivets in the tail end of a Grumman TBF Avenger torpedo bomber during one six-hour overnight shift in June 1943. President Franklin D. Roosevelt later sent her a commendation letter. After the war, Bonavita married James Hickey and became a homemaker on Long Island.

The "Real" Rosies: Rosalind P. Walter
Another Long Island resident, Rosalind Palmer Walter (b. 1924), also worked as a riveter on the night shift on a Corsair, building the F4U marine gull-winged fighter airplane. She inspired "Rosie the Riveter," a 1942 song written by Redd Evans and John Jacob Loeb and recorded by the popular swing bandleader James Kern "Kay" Kyser. Like Bonavita, she left the factory after the war. Her family's wealth helped her become a local philanthropist and a trustee at Long Island University.

The "Real" Rosies: Geraldine Hoff Doyle
Geraldine Hoff Doyle (b. 1924) was the model for the We Can Do It! poster created by the graphic artist J. Howard Miller in 1942, which is often called the Rosie the Riveter poster. The daughter of an electric contractor and composer, she graduated from high school in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Immediately following graduation, Doyle had a temporary job as a metal presser in an Inkster, Michigan, defense factory. During her one week on the job, she was spotted and photographed by an unknown wire journalist. Miller transformed this photograph into a poster for the Westinghouse Electric Company, which did not employ riveters. As a shop poster intended to discourage absenteeism and strikes, it had a limited print run and was exhibited for only two weeks, to Westinghouse employees. Thus, Miller's Rosie poster did not depict a riveter, nor was it seen by many people during the war. Doyle married and became a homemaker after her brief stint in the factory. Miller's image became well known only in the early 1980s, when it was adopted by the emerging North American feminist movement as a symbol of female empowerment. During the first decade of the 2000s, the image was seen by a broader audience, and in 1982 Doyle finally discovered that she was the model for this poster.

The "Real" Rosies: Rose Will Monroe
Rose Will Monroe mid-1940s, Louisville
Courtesy of AP Images

Like Doyle, Rose Will Monroe also worked in a Michigan factory. In 1944 she was discovered at the Willow Run Aircraft Factory in Ypsilanti by the popular Canadian actor Walter Pidgeon. Pidgeon, who had starred in various wartime propaganda films, such as Mrs. Miniver (1942), visited Monroe's factory to shoot footage for films promoting the sale of war bonds. When Pidgeon met Monroe, she was working on the assembly line as a riveter of B-24 and B-49 bomber airplanes. Pidgeon's discovery matched a real Rosie with the national ideal, a relationship that received national attention in the promotional films that Monroe and Pidgeon made during the war. Because Monroe appeared as a Rosie the Riveter in these popular films, she is most often identified as the real Rosie the Riveter. In Monroe's New York Times obituary, her daughter Vicki Jarvis states, "Mom happened to be in the right place at the right time" (New York Times, 2 June 1997).

One of nine children born to a carpenter and a housewife in rural Science Hill, Kentucky, Monroe was skilled at her father's trade and defied traditional gender roles from a young age. According to Jarvis, her mother "was a tomboy who could use tools. She could do everything" (New York Times, 2 June 1997).

Like many Rosies, Monroe fled rural poverty to seek employment in more prosperous urban centers. When a car accident claimed the life of her first husband in 1942, Monroe and her two young children left Kentucky and traveled north, to the Willow Run factory. This factory trained female pilots to fly armaments around the country, and Monroe hoped to be chosen for this program. Because she was a single mother, however, she was not selected, and so her career consisted of assembling planes, rather than flying them.

The end of World War II meant the end of Monroe's assembly-line job, as it did for many Rosies. In 1945 she moved to Clarksville, Indiana, continuing to work outside the home for the rest of her life, unlike Bonavita, Walter, and Doyle. Monroe held a variety of jobs typically associated with women, such as seamstress and beauty shop owner, as well as the more unconventional positions of taxi driver and school bus driver. Following a stint as a real-estate agent, Monroe realized that she knew how to build homes, so she founded Rose Builders, a construction company that specialized in luxury homes. At the age of fifty, Monroe finally earned her pilot's license and went on to become the only woman in her local aeronautics club. She also taught her younger daughter how to fly. In 1978 Monroe was in a plane accident that resulted in the loss of a kidney, a contributing factor to her death in 1997.

Bonavita, Walter, Doyle, and Monroe were some of the 6 million women who entered the workforce during the war, half of whom were employed by defense industries. In January 1942 President Roosevelt called for accelerated industrial production. He asked women to join the effort, forming the War Manpower Commission (WMC) and the Office of War Information (OWI), government agencies dedicated to increasing women's participation in all sectors of the workforce. The WMC and OWI intensified their employment efforts by creating the Women in Necessary Service and Women in War campaigns, in preparation for the June 1944 D-Day campaign. Photographs of female industrial workers appeared in 1943 and 1944 issues of Life, National Geographic, and Fortune magazines.



Rosie in Art and Popular Culture
Artists and filmmakers also celebrated women war workers. In 1943 Norman Rockwell created his painting of Rosie the Riveter, which appeared on the cover of the Memorial Day issue of the Saturday Evening Post. In this image a muscular Rosie takes a sandwich break, with her feet resting on a copy of Hitler's Mein Kampf, while her riveting gun is temporarily idle. This image of Rosie was hypothetical, based on Michelangelo's Isaiah from the Sistine Chapel, and the model was not a riveter, but a dental hygienist, Mary Keefe. The Saturday Evening Post donated Rockwell's popular painting to the Second War Loan Drive, which traveled the United States to encourage the purchase of war bonds. Movies such as Swing Shift Maisie (1943) featured Ann Sothern as an aircraft worker, while Lucille Ball played a defense plant worker in Meet the People (1944), and Claudette Colbert starred as a welder in Since You Went Away (1944). Women war workers were also the subject of a Broadway play, Rosie the Riveter, as well as Augusta H. Clawson's memoir Shipyard Diary of a Woman Welder (1944). Unlike Rockwell's Rosie, many of the images of Rosie in popular culture depicted her as hyperfeminine, reflecting a concern that industrial work would erode a woman's femininity.

Although Bonavita, Walter, Doyle, and Monroe inspired the popular Rosie the Riveter iconography, their fame and financial independence were short-lived. Like a majority of female war workers, Bonavita, Walter, and Doyle exited the workforce by the end of the war. Many women who worked in defense industries during World War II did so out of economic necessity and for patriotic reasons, not to achieve gender equality.

Since the last two decades of the twentieth century, both real and fictive Rosies have increased in popularity. In 1980 the director Connie Field made a documentary titled The Life and Times of Rosie the Riveter. During the early twenty-first century, Miller's Rosie poster became one of the ten most requested images from the National Archives. On 14 October 2000 the Rosie the Riveter Memorial (designed by Susan Schwartzenberg and Cheryl Barton) was dedicated on the site of the former Kaiser Shipyard Number 2, in Richmond, California, where women built a warship in a record-breaking four days. Interviews of several real-life Rosies are also included in Ken Burns's series The War (2007).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bibliography

The only source for Rose Will Monroe is her 2 June 1997 obituary in the New York Times. Most of the sources on Rosie the Riveter do not focus on an individual "Rosie." These include Maureen Honey's Creating Rosie the Riveter: Class, Gender, and Propaganda during World War II (1984), which examines how various government agencies encouraged working and middle-class women to enter the industrial work force, and Penny Colman's Rosie the Riveter: Women Working on the Home Front in World War II (1995), which provides many statistics and photographs of women in the industrial and civilian workforces during World War II. In 1982 Connie Field published, with Miriam Frank and Mirlyn Ziebarth, The Life and Times of Rosie the Riveter: The Story of Three Million Working Women during World War II, based on her 1980 documentary film.




Heidi A. Strobel
There may have been far many more hispanics, asians and blacks working in these factories as archetypal Rosies, but none of them can lay claim to being the 'real' Rosie.
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by The Hen »

loCAtek wrote:I think your assertion is like saying 'The use of the WWII term, G.I. Joe was based on a real G.I. named Joe; and not a slang reference to mean military servicemen overall.'
Lo, Lo, Lo. You have missed the whole point of this.

You asserted the REAL Rosie was black.

There is NO evidence for your assertion.

I asserted that the real Rosie was Rose Will Monroe. There is a lot of scholars that will back that up.

There are also many that will argue it is a different Rose. However none of the Roses in contention were any more coloured than an Italian.
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by Gob »

loCAtek wrote: Rosie rocks! Luv her!

Image

...and she was most likely colored!

Rosie (singular, one person) rocks! Luv her!

...and she (singular, one person) was most likely colored!

So now liartec, who is your "Rosie"
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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

Well, that's because they were named Sue, or Lola, or Juanita, but they were all collectively known as 'Rosies', because they answered the call of the campaign. I think it's the look; the bandana covering the hair. I used to be called Rosie the Riveter, when I had to dress like that in the service, although I was a Latina welder.

Pls watch the second video, it explains why the Workforce recruitment posters were aimed at white women.
Hint: ethnic women were already willing to work as hard as men.

My Rosie is in that pic. The workforce of women were referred to as Rosies, be they black, white, mocha; and doing the jobs of riveting, welding, pressing.

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Re: New colored photos from the 40s found

Post by loCAtek »

Thank you Hen
The Hen wrote:Here is some more information from the American National Biography On-Line.
Bibliography

The only source for Rose Will Monroe is her 2 June 1997 obituary in the New York Times. Most of the sources on Rosie the Riveter do not focus on an individual "Rosie." These include Maureen Honey's Creating Rosie the Riveter: Class, Gender, and Propaganda during World War II (1984), which examines how various government agencies encouraged working and middle-class women to enter the industrial work force, and Penny Colman's Rosie the Riveter: Women Working on the Home Front in World War II (1995), which provides many statistics and photographs of women in the industrial and civilian workforces during World War II. In 1982 Connie Field published, with Miriam Frank and Mirlyn Ziebarth, The Life and Times of Rosie the Riveter: The Story of Three Million Working Women during World War II, based on her 1980 documentary film.




Heidi A. Strobel

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