Occupy this

[Long Run]

Is Occupy Wall Street a non-event? There seemed to be a lot of hype and Biden and others tried to talk it up, but it seemed to have been pretty tame and not much going on. We had a similar deal here in Portland. Based on pictures, there was a decent crowd of a couple thousand, pretty well-behaved, and almost all under age 25 and hippie looking if above that. There is a general angst about things, and the generic cry of greed is bad, but really no substantive rallying point like other lasting efforts such as Move On (stop W) or the Tea Party (fiscal sanity). Given that there does not appear to be a thread here about it, it would seem to be a two-day story, or am I missing something?

[dales]

It is certainly NOT a non-event in San Francisco enjoying braod-based support from those that are disgusted with the situation of the United States of America.

All that is needed is for a catalyst to help the frustration grow into action and to evolve past the lib vs. con bullsh!t. If the powers that be can keep us at each others throats during the interm while my nation is getting butt-raped by those within and with out, so much the better.

People should take off their godammed political blinders and come to the realization that they are indeed part of the 99% that is being thrown under the bus in the name of greed and avarice by the top 1% or so.

WAKE UP BEFORE THERE IS NO MORE AMERICA TO WAKE UP TO!

[rubato]

The story has been going for weeks and looks to continue. The people interviewed on NPR were very thoughtful and honest in admitting that they did not have a specific agenda but were committed to a democratic process with their co-demonstrators in reaching one. The fact is that they do understand the basic problem and it is to their credit that they don't have mindless knee-jerk slogans about what to do next (a-la the tea party).

They are a younger group because it is almost always younger people who demonstrate for altruistic social change.

The financial collapse was caused by an unregulated financial sector and the Republican party have effectively blocked any meaningful regulation in response. They have also bent and perverted the United States into the "United States of Uncontrolled Greed for the Rich and Class Warfare Against Everyone Else." We have fallen to the bottom of the G-20 in many areas and they are trying to kill our system of higher education and our dominance in science and innovation so we can fall further and faster.

The laws of any country worth respect are written so that everyone who chooses to live honestly, to work, and respects the rights of others is assured of living a decent life free from insecurity about being bankrupted at 50 because they got cancer or their child was born with a congenital disease. Free from insecurity about their future having been stolen by unregulated corporate greed. The Republicans and the Tea Party have been working tirelessly to make this a country not worth respecting. Their idea of health care is "let them die" while we pretend that a 'free market system' which has failed to provide HC even as good as socialised medicine for 30 years will magically fix itself. Their idea is to eliminate the minimum wage and pretend that the result is not slavery. Their idea is to destroy Social Security because they are still galled that one of the best and most successful programs in the history of self-government was founded by a Democrat. And it pleases them to make millions wretched to express their spite.



yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

While they are raising some legitimate issues that would resonate with many average Americans, the optics of this thing are terrible from the standpoint of gathering the broad national support necessary to create the political pressure to bring about any real government action. The "face" of this movement are a bunch of spoiled brat college kids and menacing looking street people that middle America will never identify with. They are going to turn people off in much the same way that the shrill, obnoxious, hygiene challenged Vietnam era protestors did. (Who's antics, to the extent they had any effect at all, actually helped to prolong the Vietnam War, and enlarge Richard Nixon's landslide re-election.)

Lest anyone think that I'm getting this impression from the evil right-wing corporate controlled press, I would like to point out that most of what I've seen about this I've seen on MSNBC, which is devoting almost it's entire "news" programming to puffing this thing up, and trying to make it seem far more significant than the facts would suggest. Presumably, they think that the people they feature in their coverage of this are likely to be the most appealing. (MSNBC is clearly trying to gain media "ownership" of this in much the same way that FOX did with the Tea Party in the early days of that movement.)

There are also elements in the message that these obnoxious characters are presenting that are sure to be off putting for most folks. Ridiculous claims, like "there are millions of people starving in the streets", (MSNBC has repeatedly aired some ignorant doofus spouting that particular bit of idiocy) and Che Guevara type talk about "revolution" aren't going to win any supporters. I understand that the website of the group that started this claims that the inspiration for this comes from the "Arab Spring" which of course has included a fair bit of violent upheaval; that analogy is likely to make people who might otherwise tend to be supportive of the motivations for this very uncomfortable.

As this continues, I suspect it will attract the participation of far left groups like ANSWR, and of course the nihilistic ninja clad anarchist vandals, making for a conglomeration of extremely unattractive elements.

My best guess would be that this will pretty much fall apart as soon as the weather turns bad, (which won't be long) these types are not known for being particularly "hardy"....

[Gob]

What do the protesters taking part in the demonstrations that have swept the US in recent days want?

The BBC profiles six of the very different characters who attended one of the rallies in Cleveland in the US state of Ohio.
Jacob Wagner, 25, law and business student

My family has gone through a lot this past decade. I've seen the effects of the corporate domination of government institutions at the expense of the working classes. Enough is enough.

We really need to even the economic playing field of elections. Right now, one vote is equal to another only in a tally. If you donate $1,000 to a politician's campaign and I donate a dollar, he's not going to listen to me, he's going to listen to you.

My parents and my brother all have a lot of health problems. They lost their health insurance because my dad lost his job. My family sometimes struggles to eat, pay the bills, pay the mortgage.

I know that other people are going through the same times. I know that a lot of people... think America is number one and it can't get any better than this. It can. Our public transportation is garbage. We're not moving towards clean energy - they're keeping us dependent on oil. That's why I want to help people become aware. I want to help people wake up and not be afraid to speak out against something that's wrong.

Greg Coleridge, 52

For a very long time I have been concerned about the growing political and constitutional rights of business corporations to not only influence and shape our economic policies but to govern, to be involved in decisions that affect our communities, and our families, and our environment.

It seems like that among the subset of business corporations that are the most powerful are the financial - the banks. They invest in political candidates. Look at what happened following the economic implosion of 2008: they got off scot-free. Still nobody's been indicted, and they got bailed out. The quote-unquote reforms that were passed were anaemic at best. This subset of corporations are so powerful that trying to work within the system is basically fruitless. You have to do an end-run and build a social movement, a political movement, a grassroots movement.

Many people of many stripes and many ages have increasingly come to believe that [Democrats or Republicans], it doesn't make too much difference. Changing parties, changing faces may not be sufficient. We need to change some basic defining structures. The voices of the people without money are not being heard.

Michelle Mahon, 40, union nurse

I've been a nurse for over 20 years - internal medicine is my speciality. We are seeing patients forgoing needed medical care, emergency room visits are up since this foreclosure crisis has begun, suicides attempts are increased. Real problems: stress, hypertension, blood pressure increases. Real problems, real people.

We're the largest professional association and union of registered nurses in the US, representing about 170,000 nurses. We are out here, we are in New York, we are in Boston, we are in San Francisco, we have been protesting Wall Street. It's no longer about pay, it's no longer about jobs, it's about everything. We heard their [Occupy Wall Street protesters'] message, and we were like 'wow, they heard our message'. It's the same. If you look at the root cause of a lot of the different problems in our country, we really are all saying the same thing. It's time to blame Wall Street and make them pay their fair share. It's time.

Rev Meredith White-Zeager, 38, Presbyterian minister

I'm a Christian and Jesus Christ, one of the things they said about him right when he was born was he will lift up the poor and tear the wealthy down from their thrones. Throughout the fullness of Judaeo-Christian history, God has been on the side of the poor and the needy. And in this country, where the comparison between a corporate exec's wage and worker's wage is - I think I just read - 425 to one, it seems like we've gotten out of balance.

The Bible has over 300 mentions of justice for people in poverty, for people struggling, and I think that the church needs to be down here making a statement that we support not only the people but the issues of economic justice. The Old Testament goes on and on about no usury and no exorbitant fees. [Paraphrasing Amos 2:6-8:] "The rich people, they sell the righteous for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals. In the house of their god they drink wine bought with fines they imposed", which seems to sum up why we're all here.

If the government or politicians would hear that there's a lot of us out here that are really the impinged and hurt, it might make a difference.

Justin Bilyj, 29, insurance broker, bartender and supporter of Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul

I just want to come here and make sure I can educate my fellow Americans of some of the root causes of the greater symptoms like the corruption. We don't have a free currency system - it's monopolised by the Federal Reserve system and it's unelected bankers that basically give all of our money to their buddies, inflate interest rates.

I'm here to speak my voice and remind them who's going to champion the constitution when it comes to federal election time - Ron Paul.

We're drawing awareness. I've talked to a lot of people who have opposing viewpoints. We're here because we're angry and we want the world to know this will not stand anymore. And whether we do it through a federal mandate or federal legislation or state legislation, we're going to do something about it.

Michael Parish, 52, disabled and retired Cleveland firefighter

The middle class of this country was built off of what has been demonised now as a 'public employee'. If it was not for public employees in those positions - teachers, firefighters, police officers, EMS workers - we would be in a Third-World country.

I fought fires, saved lives, protected property for 22 years. I had multiple injuries.

We don't ask for anything other than our fair share and our fair dues, and to be addressed in this manner from our so-called elected officials is a slap in the face.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15223695

[rubato]

Republican policies have caused median household income to go down for 10 years while the rich get richer on tax breaks Republicans borrowed to provide.

yrs,
rubato

[BoSoxGal]

Sounds like a bunch of pot smoking hippies . . . yeah.



Real hardworking people are pissed, LJ. They have reason to be so.

Look at Athens . . . the birthplace of democracy may become the birthplace of a revolution to take it back from those who have nearly bankrupted the world. Strip people who have worked hard their whole lives of basic security to bail out a corrupt financial system . . . well, that should not stand.

I, for one, wouldn't mind living through such a revolution in my lifetime.

[Sue U]

[Liberty1]

They have no coherent messaage. The folks range from anarchists to marxists.

They're just a bunch of pissed off people, the solution is jobs.

[dales]

If you'e NOT p*ssed off, lib...

YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

or you're a tool.

[Grim Reaper]

They're just a bunch of pissed off people, the solution is jobs.

Right, jobs the "job creators" aren't interested in creating because they'd rather earn more profits.

[Liberty1]

Right, jobs the "job creators" aren't interested in creating because they'd rather earn more profits.

You are obviously clueless as to the purpose of a business, so I'll clue you in. The purpose of a business is to make money. It is not to provide jobs, it is not to provide health insurance.


And yes I am paying attention.........to what business have been saying for the last 2 years. They feel under attack from BO and are unwilling to put their capital at risk until a better business environment exists, in DC.

[dales]

Hello?

Businesses sit on piles of cash while individuals struggle
Updated 9/3/2010 9:45 AM

By John Waggoner, USA TODAY

The nation's economy floats on a $35 trillion sea of debt. And in the debt market, only one thing matters: your ability to repay your loans.

Despite record federal debt, Uncle Sam isn't having any trouble staying afloat. Neither are most large corporations.

But consumers and homeowners are drowning in the USA's great ocean of debt, thanks to a poor economy, stagnant wages and their own greed. Those who can't pay down their debts are going under at record rates. Those who can pay their debts are focusing on doing just that: Consumer credit card balances have shrunk by $131 billion since 2008, or 13.8%, according to the Federal Reserve. That's good news, but only partially, because those consumers' efforts to limit their spending further slow the economy.

<snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2 ... 1_CV_N.htm

[Liberty1]

Your point being? I think that says what I was, capital is not the problem. An uncertain and negitive business climate is eminating from DC.

[dales]

Negative business climate coming from DC with business sitting on trillions?

From the pinko WSJ....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 44804.html

American business is entering a political danger zone.

As the pressures from three years of brutal economic performance mount, so too are the signs that those pressures are pushing business leaders into the public cross hairs. The populists of the tea party on the right and the Occupy Wall Street movement on the left are the most obvious leading indicators, but not the only ones.

Even while President Barack Obama says he wants to lower taxes for small businesses, for example, he is growing increasingly harsh in his condemnation of the practices of the financial industry and the need for "millionaires and billionaires" to pay more in taxes.

When Fox News[another shill for the Left] asked Americans in a recent poll to say whether a series of people and institutions were helping or hurting the economy, the lowest score went to corporate chief executives. By almost six to one, voters said corporate chiefs had done more to hurt than to help the economy—a worse rating than accorded the president, congressional Republicans or Democrats, labor unions or lawmakers affiliated with the tea party.

Similarly, the Gallup poll found earlier this year that 62% of Americans want corporations to have less influence in America, up from 52% a decade ago.

For the business community, the real danger isn't that Wall Street is unpopular (it's rarely been otherwise), or that populists mistrust big business (they always have). Instead, the danger for the business community is that it could become the next target for the question: Where are the jobs?

With unemployment at 9.1%[it's over 12% in CA] and holding, many Americans already perceive that government is failing to solve the jobs problem. The administration's stimulus package prevented unemployment from being even worse, but it has hardly resolved the jobs quandary.

Now President Obama is promoting a jobs bill that is half the size of the original stimulus package, and facing an uphill climb in a Congress wary of spending money on it. His jobs council on Tuesday plans to release a report calling for, among other things, more infrastructure spending and a push to attract job-creating foreign investment.

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve has repeatedly fired its monetary cannon, with an impact that looks limited to the frightened worker. And, like the government generally, the Fed is about out of ammo.

Which leaves the business community. On that front, there is a radical disconnect between the picture populist critics paint from outside, and the one business leaders describe from inside.

The populist crowd sees American companies that have enough money to create jobs, but not in America. Indeed, in the 1990s, Commerce Department data show, American multinationals added 4.4 million jobs in the U.S. and 2.7 million abroad. But in the first decade of this century, they cut their work forces in the U.S. by 2.9 million, while increasing employment overseas by 2.4 million.

Moreover, relatively few jobs are coming back even as corporate profits improve. Analysts are forecasting corporate earnings growth of 13.5% for the just-ended third quarter, according to Standard & Poor's, which suggests to Wall Street protesters that companies are hoarding profits without creating work.

Business leaders see the inverse. Third-quarter earnings growth? Less than expected, and much of it attributable to the benefits of an artificially weak dollar that already has turned around.

More broadly, business leaders say deep economic imbalances have become virtual show-stoppers on the jobs front. Consumer demand is weak as Americans pay down mountains of debt and find their houses are worth a lot less than they thought; rising government debt presages tax increases that require them to stockpile cash; and growing government regulations is driving up the cost of labor and production.

If demand is higher and barriers lower abroad, they say, investments flow there naturally.

So what is hindering job creation? Unpatriotic corporate behavior, or a suddenly hostile business environment?

The full answers are much more complicated. The forces holding down job creation include many—a deeply flawed and uncompetitive corporate tax code,[corporations are poeple, doncha know] rising health costs, crumbling infrastructure, an inadequate education system—that transcend current problems. Those, in fact, are issues the White House jobs council's new report tries to address.

The danger for American business, though, is that it in a hothouse environment of rising populism, and absent a better job making its case, it can become the target of punitive measures—surtaxes, even more regulation, trade barriers and restrictions on the flow of capital—that would make job creation harder.

"While I sympathize with what I think is a lot of the anxiety, frustration and fear among the Occupy Wall Street people, I just worry that there are people who are yearning for a simple answer that doesn't exist," says Matthew Slaughter, a member of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers now at Dartmouth College's Tuck School of Business.

Save your "sympathy"...what these people wnat is a JOB, you inarticulate jackss!

[Liberty1]

Absolutely. They have trillions in profits (collectively) because they have not and are not investing it in new business ventures. That is, they are not putting it at risk. Therefore, no new jobs.

[dales]

You're hopeless, lib.

[liberty]

They have no coherent messaage. The folks range from anarchists to marxists.

They're just a bunch of pissed off people, the solution is jobs.

Can anybody argue with that?

We need jobs, a lot jobs with people working and paying taxes. The federal government could stimulate the economy by putting money in the hands of the American people. That would stimulate the economy……..of China, unfortunately the Chinese don‘t taxes in the US.

Obviously the answer is more immigrants for the US and more jobs for China.

[Liberty1]

You're hopeless, lib

Hopelessly correct. I'm not sure what you're having a hard time understanding.

[Liberty1]

We need jobs, a lot jobs with people working and paying taxes. The federal government could stimulate the economy by putting money in the hands of the American people. That would stimulate the economy……..of China, unfortunately the Chinese don‘t taxes in the US.

Partially correct. the best option would be for the government to not confiscate it in the first place. But I have no hope of that happening.

So instead of the first "stimulous" being a slush fund for political payoffs like it was, can you imagine what would have happened if instead they suspended income tax for the citizens until that same amount would have been reached.