Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

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rubato
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Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by rubato »

The European crisis was caused by an unregulated financial sector. Our S&L crash was caused by an unregulated financial sector, the ongoing housing crash was caused by an unregulated financial sector, the current 'great recession' was caused by an unregulated financial sector.

So what is our best option to avoid this next time:

1. Cut taxes and reduce spending.

2. Regulate the financial sector.

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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/1 ... &seid=auto

Boom For Whom

While I’m talking about inequality and the crisis, I realized recently that there’s another channel not usually talked about, via the misperception of success.

Let me start with a puzzle: why did faith in the wonders of financial deregulation persist so long?

After all, if you step back from the record, deregulation began producing disasters from early on. Early deregulatory moves helped bring on the Latin American debt crisis of the early 1980s; Garn-St. Germain produced the savings and loan debacle; freed-up capital flows produced the Asian crisis and LTCM; and now we have the great bust. So why were Very Serious People so convinced that it was a good thing?

Well, the answer from the usual suspects has always been that the era of deregulation was also an era of unprecedented economic growth. A while back I noted how Peter Wallison — one of the prime movers behind the Big Lie on the causes of the crisis — claimed that

Indeed, the modern era of rapid economic growth commenced after both Democratic and Republican presidents undertook to lift costly and stultifying New Deal regulations.

Similarly, Eugene Fama asserted that

Beginning in the early 1980s, the developed world and some big players in the developing world experienced a period of extraordinary growth. It’s reasonable to argue that in facilitating the flow of world savings to productive uses around the world, financial markets and financial institutions played a big role in this growth.

The point is that these are pure fantasies on the part of the right. The true age of spectacular growth in the United States and other advanced economies was the generation after World War II, with post-Reagan growth nowhere near comparable. So why do these people imagine otherwise?

And the answer, once you think about it, is obvious: growth for whom? There’s only one way in which the post-deregulation boom was exceptional, and that’s in terms of the growth in incomes at the top of the scale.

Here’s a comparison of the postwar boom with the deregulation alleged boom, using real average family income from the Census and real average income for the top 1 percent from Piketty and Saez:

If you’re looking at the average, the last generation is a poor shadow of the postwar boom. But if you’re talking about the 1 percent, wonderful things have happened.

No wonder then, that Very Serious People — who, after all, get to be considered Very Serious because the elite likes them — have retained faith in deregulation despite repeated disasters.
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dgs49
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by dgs49 »

Ignoring the fact that Krugman is a complete charlatan and a whore, the very idea that "regulation" or "deregulation" has any meaningful definition beyond the fancy of the writer is utterly ridiculous.

To the extent that regulations promote transparency and allow the market to function as intended, bring 'em on.

Regulations that attempt to induce counterproductive or counterlogical activities have been proven disastrous.

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dales
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by dales »

Image
Last edited by dales on Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

Andrew D
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by Andrew D »

dgs49 wrote:Ignoring the fact that Krugman is a complete charlatan and a whore knows more about economics than all right-wingers combined ....
Fixed that for you.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by Lord Jim »

Dale, the image Nazis yanked your pic....(which if you're reading this you already know, so I guess it's a little gratuitous... :D )
ImageImageImage

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Lord Jim
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by Lord Jim »

the very idea that "regulation" or "deregulation" has any meaningful definition beyond the fancy of the writer is utterly ridiculous.

To the extent that regulations promote transparency and allow the market to function as intended, bring 'em on.

Regulations that attempt to induce counterproductive or counterlogical activities have been proven disastrous.
Those are valid points...

One regulation it seems to me that would make a great deal of sense, would be to require lending institutions to retain some meaningful level of risk for the loans they write...(This basic and obvious problem has still not been addressed through the law)

You don't have to be a first rate economist, (even a third rate political hack like Krugman can work it out) to understand that this was at the heart of of the near collapse of the financial sector three years ago....

If the loan officers at bank A know that no matter how dodgy a loan they write they will be able to turn around and sell the entire thing to institution B, assuming no risk themselves, it vastly distorts the market and encourages the writing of bad loans.
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rubato
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by rubato »

Our pre-tax savings for 2011 will be about $90,300 (new savings, not investment income) and we will increase that by at least $10,000 next year and possibly $25,000.

Because we can.

Our gross is something over $300,000 (more than I would like but they won't let me take as much unpaid leave as I ask for) but our taxable after the above + mortgage interest exemption + charities* = closer to $210,000

You are getting fucked in the ass. Why are you so stupid? Why? Why?

yrs,
rubato

*most years our charitable contributions are $2,000 - $3,000 over the limit.

Andrew D
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by Andrew D »

The problem was not simply the writing of bad loans.

As real economists like Nobel-prize winner Krugman have been trying for years to explain to the moron right, that problem was compounded (look it up, Jim) many times over by the bundling and securitization of bad loans.

The people buying and selling those bundled and securitized loans -- and many of them have publicly admitted it -- did not understand what they were buying and selling.

How did that happen?

The Republicans' idiotic anti-regulationism.

Small wonder that the total credibility among thinking people of the Republican party on economic issues is less than zero.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

quaddriver
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by quaddriver »

rubato wrote:Our pre-tax savings for 2011 will be about $90,300 (new savings, not investment income) and we will increase that by at least $10,000 next year and possibly $25,000.

Because we can.

Our gross is something over $300,000 (more than I would like but they won't let me take as much unpaid leave as I ask for) but our taxable after the above + mortgage interest exemption + charities* = closer to $210,000

You are getting fucked in the ass. Why are you so stupid? Why? Why?

yrs,
rubato

*most years our charitable contributions are $2,000 - $3,000 over the limit.
your wife makes over 300K as a doc? not bad!

dgs49
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by dgs49 »

Andrew, if the Gub'mint had not stepped in and (a) demanded that loan standards be reduced to "promote home ownership" especially among minorities, and (b) agreed to buy the bad paper, the bubble simply would not have occurred. The banks would have been risking the money of their depositors, and would have adhered to the historical indicia of creditworthiness. It was only BECAUSE OF mis-directed government "compassion" for The Poor that the whole situation arose.

Post-fact regulation was and is simply compounding stupidity upon stupidity.

The world has abundant examples of countries that have gone teats-up due to the silly conceit that Government Knows Best. The European community is the best current example.

Any competent economist knows that the marketplace is too complex to understand completely or to control by government fiat. Which is why Krugman shows himself as nothing more than a Democrat flack with every column he writes. His current chronic whine about the trillions already spent being too timid is a simply a test of whether his audience is so stupid that they will continue to believe what he says in the face of a mountain of evidence indicating he is full of shit - rather like the religious "leaders" who continue to predict the end of the world on one date, then another, yet continue to find people who believe them.

dgs49
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by dgs49 »

Excerpts from an Op-Ed piece in today's paper about the "wisdom" of prosperity through expansion of government/spending by Mark W. Hendrickson...

According to Wall Street Journal economist Stephen Moore, since 1960 the number of Americans working in manufacturing has fallen from 15 million to 11.5 million. American manufacturing output and productivity have increased enormously.
Over that same time span, the number of government employees has increased from 8.7 million to 22.5 million. No productivity growth there. In fact, our economic growth rates have weakened under this increased burden.

Remember, the private sector has to generate the wealth that supports both itself and the government, so as government grows relative to the private sector, its burden increasingly retards economic growth.

There is abundant empirical evidence that confirms this relationship.

Compare America's depression of 1920-21 with the depression that started in 1930-31. Both were horrendous; in fact, the 1920-21 economic downturn in production and employment was the most rapid and severe depression we've ever had.
The Harding-Coolidge administration responded to the earlier depression by cutting federal spending approximately in half in a few short years. The private sector quickly rebounded and production (i.e., wealth creation) and employment soared.
By contrast, the Hoover and Roosevelt administrations responded to the wrenching downturn of the early '30s with aggressive deficit spending, stimulus programs and an overall expansion of government. The result was the Great Depression.

Throughout the 1980s repeated statistical studies indicated a clear inverse correlation between the size of government as a percentage of GDP and the secular rate of economic growth. Generally speaking, the larger the government, the slower the growth.

Three studies released last year -- from Harvard, the American Enterprise Institute and Goldman Sachs (a company with the strongest ties to government and correspondingly strong incentives to take a pro-government stance) -- all concluded that government spending cuts were the key to reviving a moribund economy. [Wonder if Krugman has read these studies...probably not, since he is confused by actual facts.]

Tax increases, on the other hand, were found to be ineffectual if not counterproductive -- a conclusion shared by the International Monetary Fund and President Barack Obama's former chief economist Christina Romer.

The leaders of Latvia kick-started an economic recovery last year by firing 29 percent of the Baltic nation's federal workforce and cutting the pay of the rest by 26 percent.

Canada was in as sorry shape in 1995 as we are today, sinking under a gigantic debt burden accompanied by perennial spending increases. At that critical juncture, Canada's Liberal Party government cut government spending. And it didn't use the Washington "pseudo-cut" of trimming spending increases from a projected 6 percent to an actual 4 percent and calling it a "cut." It reduced spending on government programs by 8.8 percent over two years and federal government employment by 14 percent.

None of this is rocket science. It is simply a pragmatic matter of what works.

(Mark W. Hendrickson is an adjunct faculty member, economist and fellow for economic and social policy within The Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College).

This is part of the mountain of evidence I have referred to previously - dgs49

Andrew D
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Re: Financial deregulation is the problem. OWS is the cure

Post by Andrew D »

According to Wall Street Journal economist Stephen Moore, since 1960 the number of Americans working in manufacturing has fallen from 15 million to 11.5 million.
Because the right-wing policy of enriching the few at the expense of the many drove those jobs elsewhere.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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