What we wanted for Xmas 1976

[Lord Jim]

This is AMAZING!!!

quad has actually, for the first time EVER, found something on the internet to support his point of view. This could be an important historical moment.

For once, he didn't say that he is righter than everyone else and that the proof 'is out there' for others to find.

Notice how he keeps finding more and more stuff to cut & paste? It's never happened before and he's enjoying it because it is new to him.

Remind me never to come to you if I'm in need of a compliment, Joe....

[Gob]

So, Quads proof, Van Halen were a major inlfuence? None. Again he relies on Eddie's guitar playing being innovative, hint to Quaddy, no one had doubted that. Also, Van Halen were without Eddie from 1985-96, when Sammy Hagar replaced him

As for tapping, (another one of Quaddy's attempts to deflect from his display of his astounding ignorance) it's been done since Paganini, and in fact;

One of the first rock guitarists to record using the two-handed tapping technique was Steve Hackett from Genesis. Two examples of Hackett's complex Bach like tapping can be heard on the song "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", from 1973, and "The Return of the Giant Hogweed", from 1971

Even Eddie Van Halen himself admits he learned it from Randy Resnick!

Van Halen were a popular band, but to credit them as "sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied, Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10", is so ludicrously funny as to be nonsensical.

Oh and to say "10" was a major change in music pace is equally as stupid, grunge was already well under way, and most saw 10 as a cash in corporate whoring of grunge..

[Rick]

Gob, Hagar replaced Roth not Eddie...

[Gob]

My apologies, that is correct, type in haste repent at leisure!

[Gob]

Sammy Hagar was a good guitarist in his own right.

[Rick]

Sammy Hagar was a good guitarist in his own right.

Hagar can Play guitar but he's not a lead caliber guitarist.

[Gob]

He wasn't to shabby when he was with Montrose.

[Rick]

He wasn't to shabby when he was with Montrose.

Ronnie Montrose played lead...

[Gob]

Yep, as I said, Sammy H is a a good (note not great) guitarist in his own right.

[Gob]

This is AMAZING!!!
quad has actually, for the first time EVER, found something on the internet to support his point of view. This could be an important historical moment.

Point of order Mr Chairman!

Quaddy has found some quotes that agree that Eddie Van Halen is a good guitarist. This is a point no one had made, and definitely no one who knows rock music would dispute.

What he has singularly failed to do is support is his lunatic assertion that;

VH's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied, Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10

Although I will give him the fact that Vad Halen; "sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Pearl Jam with 10" as that is entirely correct. They both sparked no major change of pace. None.

Worth noting also is that Led Zep didn't really hit the "pace changers" criteria fully until Zep 2. Zep 1 was mainly left overs from Page's stint in the Yardbrirds, and reworking of blues standards.

The late 70s begat Van Halen, and once again, it all changed....

Van Halen were a good pop rock band, (who were 'begat" in 71, not "late 70's") and with a talented guitarist and a very charismatic front man. But to say their bland, populist, corporate, middle of the road, hair metal/cock rock was a major change of pace in music, equal to Dylan's Highway 61, is at best laughable, at worse reason to despair of the intellect of the idiot who claims it.

He also came up with, then ran away from, his lunatic assertion that;

(Punk evolved) mid 70s for the US with the ramones....but yo uare right, it didnt have much of a worldwide audience until the 80's

[quaddriver]

So, Quads proof, Van Halen were a major inlfuence? None.

Except for the quotes I gave. truth be known, Gob found the SAME quotes, and more today. Which is why he didnt post them as it shows his lack of knowledge on the subject

Again he relies on Eddie's guitar playing being innovative, hint to Quaddy, no one had doubted that. Also, Van Halen were without Eddie from 1985-96, when Sammy Hagar replaced him

But not as much as this gem. And he sent ad hominem towards me? I would suggest, that if you dont even know the lineup of the band, (in ANY era...hint there are more than two) you not pontificate on the significance of the band. But as I said before, no offense, but you are woefully unprepared to comment on the rock and roll genre in general, US and UK (and OZ) bands in specific. I asked you at least twice to please be correct.

As for tapping, (another one of Quaddy's attempts to deflect from his display of his astounding ignorance) it's been done since Paganini, and in fact;

One of the first rock guitarists to record using the two-handed tapping technique was Steve Hackett from Genesis. Two examples of Hackett's complex Bach like tapping can be heard on the song "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", from 1973, and "The Return of the Giant Hogweed", from 1971

Even Eddie Van Halen himself admits he learned it from Randy Resnick!

Would this be a red herring or a strawman? I never once mentioned tapping. I challenge you to find a single post where I typed the word. In fact, the 'joke' is that he learned it from someone who learned it from Billy Gibbons (another guitarist you do not know without application of google - (not to mention that aside from Jimmy page, the only other guitarist I cover as extensively as I do)

Van Halen were a popular band, but to credit them as "sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied, Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10", is so ludicrously funny as to be nonsensical.

this is a fine example of woeful ignorance, since you have yet to provide any sources to back your argument. As I have shown, many publications have ranked the leader and band very high, it remains in the top 25 bands worldwide of all time. Its hard to do that without being significant. I will give you 1 day to provide quotes on how significant they were/are since it was your idea to derail the thread.

Oh and to say "10" was a major change in music pace is equally as stupid, grunge was already well under way, and most saw 10 as a cash in corporate whoring of grunge..

Grunge, as it were (a name not used or enjoyed by seattle bands - another little spot of trivia you managed to miss) was in swing in the 80's. It became mainstream c. 1990. Some say Nirvana was the most siginificant, some (incl me) say Pearl Jam was. Since nirvana was short lived and all its members are in OTHER "grunge" bands, that makes PJ the winner since a) they still play b) have a larger body of work and c) are oft cited as the inspiration for todays newer bands.

Since you said 'most saw 10 as a cash in...' I would like you to PROVE that. I wont be greedy, 2 quotes will do. But I know where you got the phrase from - from the local (read: oz) critique of 'Diesel and Dust' from Midnight oil (another band you do not listen to, do not have albums from, do not know who they are...)

So lets summarize, since you decided to go off book with ad hominem and unsubstantiated claims:

1) Dales stated the late 70's were a down point with music

2) I countered that in the late 70's (specifically 1978) a band debuted with a game changing album similar to...and named at least 3 other albums that you never heard of and made sure I noted it was not a closed list

3) You countered that no such thing was true.

4) you left at least 2 ad hominem attacks

5) I gave examples from magazines, writers, guitarists and musicians that eerily used the EXACT SAME WORDS about the EXACT SAME ALBUM (<---hint, that is usually a clue that a consensus has been reached)

6) you countered by demonstrating you do not know who van halen is, the person or the band (sidebar: name 2 other musical acts that Eddie Van Halens 'replacement' was in, without googling of course)

7) you made spurrious claims about other bands using words like 'Most' without ever providing any supporting evidence.

this *was* actually a fun thread for most people. you and you alone decided to turn it into another shit storm for god only knows what reason because it is obviously quite undiagnosable.

how do you plan on atoning for that?

As I said when you made your first erroneous post, please try to be correct. You have not. You owe me an apology.

[Joe Guy]

This is AMAZING!!!
quad has actually, for the first time EVER, found something on the internet to support his point of view. This could be an important historical moment.

Point of order Mr Chairman!

Quaddy has found some quote that agree that Eddie Van Halen is a good guitarist. This is a point no one had made, and definitely no one who knows rock music would dispute.

Okay...

Well...

quad did give links that were almost relevant to the point he was trying to make.

I'm just amazed that the quadster (computer tech that he is) finally figured out how to post a link that would (he should at least get points for trying) almost support his opinion.

[Gob]

So, to return to Quaddrivel, proof given of his claim that; "VH's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied, Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10 "

None.

Proof given of his claim; "(Punk evolved) mid 70s for the US with the ramones....but yo uare right, it didnt have much of a worldwide audience until the 80's."

None.

Proof that Quaddy is an idiot?

Abundant.

Evidence?

Quad claims

Would this be a red herring or a strawman? I never once mentioned tapping. I challenge you to find a single post where I typed the word. In fact, the 'joke' is that he learned it from someone who learned it from Billy Gibbons (another guitarist you do not know without application of google - (not to mention that aside from Jimmy page, the only other guitarist I cover as extensively as I do)

First mention of tapping (whole post included!)

Utter nonsense. Van Halen did absolutely nothing new.

Again, players disagree with you:

It's circa 1978. The editor of Guitar Player magazine receives an advance copy of the first Van Halen album. While listening to the tapping sequence in 'Eruption', a columnist walks by, looks in, asks “who's playing the keyboards”? He answers, “it's a guitar”. With a look of disbelief, the writer says, “wow, this changes everything”. Huge understatement. Van Halen took guitar techniques into the stratosphere. Word is he didn't invent tapping (a technique that involves hammering a pick hand finger directly onto the fretboard, then pulling off to another note), but he might as well have. Without him, Floyd Rose (inventor of a bridge system that allows the whammy bar to move both ways without going out of tune), would still be knocking on doors trying to sell his product. His rhythm and soloing are so unpredictable, it always sounds like he is about to crash and burn. It's that slippery. As a guitarist, I can usually watch a player and know what scales, chords, tricks, etc, they are incorporating. After all these years, Van Halen still scares me. One drawback to the Van Halen era: he caused players to become too technical, which leads to my last choice:

I dunno, pick up the instrument and learn?

(not to mention that aside from Jimmy page, the only other guitarist I cover as extensively as I do)

I'm sure you know what you meant to say there BTW, but whatever it was, you didn't say it. It would appear this is more of your "check berry" and "curt (Cobain)" stupidity.

[Joe Guy]

The explanation for quad's misunderstanding of music trends may be that he was such a dedicated Van Halen fan that he didn't pay much attention to anything else that was going on at the time.

He gave us a link instead of telling us to figure out what he meant!!

That's impressive and I still believe he deserves congratulations for that.

[quaddriver]

[Worth noting also is that Led Zep didn't really hit the "pace changers" criteria fully until Zep 2. Zep 1 was mainly left overs from Page's stint in the Yardbrirds, and reworking of blues standards.

Ok, now this is just getting stupid. If you are going to try to pass off poorly reformatted wiki quotes as your own work at least get the facts right.

Unlike you, without googling, I can give the entire track list of Zep 1. There are exactly 9 songs on the album and I do cover/have covered 8 of them.

Of these 9 songs exactly two are willie Dixon songs. they might be considered blues standards. One additional song has a zep writing credit page/plant due to the extensive rework and is oft thought to be a Baez song (it is and it isnt) That leaves 6 songs that were written by the members of Zep but NEVER played by the yardbirds. they were covered to some extent in a contractual show by the 'new yardbirds' (along with actual yardbirds songs) but then put down under the new name in late 68. you didnt need to read a wiki post (and get it wrong) to discover this. You could have just simply read 'hammer of the gods' want to borrow my copy?

you claim to be from the UK, I sorta doubt it tho.

I stated, with no ambiguity that zep 1 changed everything in my original post. But why listen to me? there is a magazine in the UK called 'Q' (which is available in the US) which did an article in the mid 2000's (I will have to research to find my copy) which did a synopsis and listed about 20 years of bands as 'the music that changed the world'.

Zep 1's album was in the list. Zep 2 was not. Neither was the their most popular album 4 (zoso, fours sticks etc) which was simply a polished followon. The world was already changed. the point of people making these statments is: it signifies a new direction. this is lost on you simply because I fear you have no affinity for rock music or music in general.

Just as most rock bands in the 70's cite zep as a main influence, to stay on topic, most rock bands in the 80's 90s cite VH.

But I now understand why you refuse to cite sources. Because they tend to say stuff like this:

The success and influence of the album is today widely acknowledged (eds note: except by noted rock critic/performer Gob), even amongst those critics who were initially sceptical. In 2006, for example, Rolling Stone stated that:

[The album] was pretty much unlike anything else. The arrangements were more sculpted than those of Cream or Jimi Hendrix, and the musicianship wasn't cumbersome like Iron Butterfly's or bombastic like Vanilla Fudge's. The closest comparisons might be to MC5 or the Stooges—both from Michigan—yet neither had the polish or prowess of Led Zeppelin, nor did Led Zeppelin have the political, social or die-hard sensibility of those landmark bands. What they did have, though, was the potential for a mass audience.

[quaddriver]

So, to return to Quaddrivel, proof given of his claim that; "VH's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied, Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10 "

None.

Proof given of his claim; "(Punk evolved) mid 70s for the US with the ramones....but yo uare right, it didnt have much of a worldwide audience until the 80's."

None.

Proof that Quaddy is an idiot?

Abundant.

Evidence?

Quad claims

Snip. I left the above in to reflect of continuous quality and content of the typical gob post but took out his tacit admission that I never once mentioned tapping. Someone else did, and it was buried deep in the quote AND ITSELF didnt claim he invented the technique.

Is it possible for a person to screw something up as bad as Gob has?

[Joe Guy]

Unlike you, without googling, I can give the entire track list of Zep 1. There are exactly 9 songs on the album and I do cover/have covered 8 of them.

Gee...

I'm impressed once again.

quad has covered 8 of 9 of Led Zeppelin's songs.

(he's now a certifiable dork)

But I'm still impressed.

Please don't stop, quad.

This is very entertaining.

thanks.

[quaddriver]

Van Halen were a good pop rock band, (who were 'begat" in 71, not "late 70's") and with a talented guitarist and a very charismatic front man.

And as long as Gob is going to engage in unprovoked ad hominem, which just plain being wrong about his facts, I will continue to point out his errors to illustrate that he really does not know the subject material.

ANYONE who has even the smallest following of VH, knows the brothers formed a band not in 1971 at all. And it was not called VH. Even when they changed their name 2 years later, it was still not VH until they learned the changed name was in use (by a UK band Gob does not know of either)

their debut album was in fact 1978 despite his claims to the contrary. It is regarded as a heavy metal and hard rock album. Not 'pop' as Gob claimed.

Now I left out the two key dates of the formation/name change and details of the bands lineup (preceeding 1974) as well as the Rolling Stone article classifying the genre.

In order to fill in the blanks, dispute them, Gob will have to utilize google to learn (since he clearly does not know at this point), thereby proving, he does not know the subject matter. Didnt stop him from posting 'facts' (as they were)

[Joe Guy]

And don't disregard this statement by the quad...

"I stated, with no ambiguity that zep 1 changed everything in my original post."

Now quad's saying that Led Zeppelin edited what he wrote in his original post in this thread.

He's gone mad!!!

Please continue, quad.

[Joe Guy]

In order to fill in the blanks, dispute them, Gob will have to utilize google to learn (since he clearly does not know at this point), thereby proving, he does not know the subject matter. Didnt stop him from posting 'facts' (as they were)

Please, Gob...

quad knows everything about Van Halen, so let him be.

He's an expert.

He's... he's the best ever!

I bet Timmy is proud of him.