What we wanted for Xmas 1976

[Jarlaxle]

Anyone who thinks that punk started in the eighties is obviously American.

Not started, per se, it's just that nobody who mattered gave a shit about it until then!

*ducks and runs*

[Gob]

The Clash's 1980 album (London Calling) pretty much marked the end (not the beginning) of punk rock; it was their cross-over pop-rock/reggae/ska album. By that time, the old school punk rockers were transitioning into hardcore and some more experimental stuff (Black Flag, Butthole Surfers) while the clubs were going with "new wave" acts to bring in the weekend party bucks. By 1980, punk had become more of a fashion statement than a musical/cultural movement.

I know, 'cause I was there.

You and me both, I was spat on by Captain Sensible! (of The Damned)

[quaddriver]

Pretending for a second that he in sincere, which I for the record state I doubt,

As we have seen from linked in material, they took the angst of metal and as one writer put it: the party has arrived. Metal no longer needed to be dark and depressing. As I have shown, it paved the way for the whole hair metal movement of the 80's: ratt, crue, quiet riot, dokken and as VH matured so did their infulence: Y&T, Kix, tesla, great white (and these are by no means all inclusive or even the best, just ones you are likely to have heard of - mebbe)

As another writer I linked in showed: it was for the first time speed, AND accuracy, when to this point we had speed and mistakes (Page comes immediately to mind - are there ANY takes with no mistakes in it?) which begat nuno from extreme as a PERFECT example.

DLR (the singer) made it fashionable to soar out over the audience, which is short for over the edge stage antics that do not detract from the music.

As Angus young wrote recently:

"I’d Put Eddie in That Category of Being an Innovator Like Hendrix

well gee, innovators tend to change the pace, scene, whatever dont they? Did hendrix change everything with electric ladyland? I think the point is well proven with that statement which is a subset of:

"Eddie is an innovator. When I grew up we had a lot of guys from England who were great players, like Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, and Jeff Beck. And then, of course, when Jimi Hendrix came along, he changed the game. I’d put Eddie in that category of being an innovator like Hendrix. He changed the game for his style of playing. When Eddie came along he spawned so many imitators.

I think stating the same words as Angus Young puts me in pretty good company.

(Of note, I dont own this book, but I do get the magazine it was quoted in)

So, I am done putting in quotes. Every single one has backed what I said, including this one:

When asked about influences, all you hear the kids and bands talking about these days is Dimebag. Dimebag, Dimebag, Dimebag. Sometimes you’ll hear “Kerry King,” oftentimes “James Hetfield” (but never Kirk Hammet), and every now and then you even get a little “Zakk Wylde” thrown around. But no one mentions Eddie anymore. What gives? The dude LITERALLY changed the face of guitar playing for an entire decade plus, and his influence is still heavily felt today in the newest crop of metal bands that do choose to emphasize musicianship.

Seeing Eddie play live reminded me of how awesome he is — because I, too, had forgotten. It’s not that he plays faster or heavier than other dudes, and though there is much debate about this fact he was probably not even the first guitar player to move his right hand onto the fretboard. But damn, the dude just plays BETTER than anyone else before or after. He’s got speed, soul, creativity, ARTFULNESS — and the latter is often missing in insert-dude-here’s million-note-a-minute shred runs.

Maybe it’s because he’s been off the radar for a while, or maybe it’s because Van Halen is several years older than many of the guitarists who are frequently cited as influences. But as far as influence, hands down Eddie Van Halen is the single most influential guitar player for hard rock and heavy metal music. Ever. I challenge you to dispute this fact.

the first album to showcase this 'best ever'. Titled Van Halen. the song attributed to catching everyones ear? Eruption/Really got me. Release date? 1978. First time the world ever heard of them.

But I will second up his words: I challenge Gob to dispute these facts. 8 pages long now and not ONE. SINGLE. SHRED. OF. EVIDENCE. backing his claims.

[quaddriver]

What I wanted for Christmas in 1976? That's an easy one!



Make mine a 455/4-speed with A/C, "Honeycomb" wheels, 3.08 limited-slip axle, cruise control, and solid roof...preferably in silver over black.

Actually, forget that, I'll take a (used) 1974 T/A, with the fire-breathing Super Duty 455 under the hood!

the 73 was better yanno, and VERY underrated at 310hp advertised.....

[Sue U]

I was spat on by Captain Sensible!

Lucky git!

[quaddriver]

Anyone who thinks that punk started in the eighties is obviously American.

I dont think anyone did other than Dales.

Never posted what you said I posted.

Never got what I wanted for xmas 1976, either.

but you did say this:

I believe punk rock came along later.

later than the late 70's which apparently I, GOb, and Hen took to mean 80's. I started off by pointing out the Ramones were in biz in the mid 70's. But as Jarl pointed out, no one really noticed/cared until the Clash in 1980.

[Gob]

So your Quaddy's us now, contradicting his earlier claim that it was Van Halen's album he was talking about, and telling us that it was Eddie Van Halen's innovative guitar playing he was talking about when he said;

VH's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied,[sic] Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10",

Eddie Van Halen is a great and innovative guitairist, something no one has disputed. He didn't make any sea changes, or "changes" of pace" in rock music though. No more than Nuno B, Steve V, Yngwie M, Joe S, did.

So apart from contradicting yourself, do you have any more evidence to prove yourself in the wrong?

But I will second up his words: I challenge Gob to dispute these facts. 8 pages long now and not ONE. SINGLE. SHRED. OF. EVIDENCE. backing his claims.

I made no claim, you made the claim, "VH's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied,[sic] Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10", which is totally untrue and without substance.

Let's put it to a vote for the membership shall we, see who's argued their case better?

[quaddriver]

Well if I, and every single quote either of us has found saying the same thing is not evidence, then I guess you must take the mantle of 'supreme creator of truth' I wonder how far you would get with your claims if you posted them on Rolling Stone mags forums? Lets find out!



(PS: if everyone tries to immitate you, then you have changed the pace of rockmusic.)

[Gob]

That makes no sense.

[Gob]

If you are going to post this up on another forum, please give us a link.

[Gob]

Of course, if there is any honesty in you, which I doubt, you would post; "Van Halens's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied,[sic] Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10, discuss/vote."

[Lord Jim]

Since the Sex Pistols toured in the US in 1978, and broke up shortly thereafter, it would seem unlikely that punk rock would have arrived in the US in the 1980's....

Unless of course, there's some way that the 1980's occurred before 1978....

[dales]

Anyone who thinks that punk started in the eighties is obviously American.

I dont think anyone did other than Dales.



Never posted what you said I posted.

Never got what I wanted for xmas 1976, either.

but you did say this:
I believe punk rock came along later.

later than the late 70's which apparently I, GOb, and Hen took to mean 80's. I started off by pointing out the Ramones were in biz in the mid 70's. But as Jarl pointed out, no one really noticed/cared until the Clash in 1980.

First heard punk rock in 1979 (after the disco craze) is what I should've posted.

Both genres were not to my liking (sucked eggs).


I'll stick with classic rock, thank-you.

[loCAtek]

Since the Sex Pistols toured in the US in 1978, and broke up shortly thereafter, it would seem unlikely that punk rock would have arrived in the US in the 1980's....

Unless of course, there's some way that the 1980's occurred before 1978....

Well, in the US mainstream what they called 'Punk' was the Blondie style of New Wave mish-mash. The Misfits were around at that time, but didn't make it big until 1982.

[Lord Jim]

That's not my recollection at all, LoCa...

I remember New Wave very well, (Blondie, Elvis Costello, Patti Smith) and while it was edgy for the time it was never as raw as punk and I would never have mistaken one for the other...

[loCAtek]

I'm not saying they were Punk at all, that's just what MTV labeled them and it stuck.

[Sean]

As another writer I linked in showed: it was for the first time speed, AND accuracy, when to this point we had speed and mistakes (Page comes immediately to mind - are there ANY takes with no mistakes in it?) which begat nuno from extreme as a PERFECT example.

LMAO - You think every note in there is clean and none are fluffed? Maybe you don't have much of an ear for this guitar lark after all...

When asked about influences, all you hear the kids and bands talking about these days is Dimebag. Dimebag, Dimebag, Dimebag. Sometimes you’ll hear “Kerry King,” oftentimes “James Hetfield” (but never Kirk Hammet), and every now and then you even get a little “Zakk Wylde” thrown around. But no one mentions Eddie anymore. What gives? The dude LITERALLY changed the face of guitar playing for an entire decade plus, and his influence is still heavily felt today in the newest crop of metal bands that do choose to emphasize musicianship.

Seeing Eddie play live reminded me of how awesome he is — because I, too, had forgotten. It’s not that he plays faster or heavier than other dudes, and though there is much debate about this fact he was probably not even the first guitar player to move his right hand onto the fretboard. But damn, the dude just plays BETTER than anyone else before or after. He’s got speed, soul, creativity, ARTFULNESS — and the latter is often missing in insert-dude-here’s million-note-a-minute shred runs.

Maybe it’s because he’s been off the radar for a while, or maybe it’s because Van Halen is several years older than many of the guitarists who are frequently cited as influences. But as far as influence, hands down Eddie Van Halen is the single most influential guitar player for hard rock and heavy metal music. Ever. I challenge you to dispute this fact.

I see... so blogs are now acceptable as evidence. If that is the case, allow me to submit the following from various guitarists (all of which you seem to believe idolise EVH) from a couple of forums...

Being a capable player, in the right place at the right time. You can never take that away from him, and it's a waste of time wondering who else was overlooked, cuz thaz how the planet spins.

It's the job of a celeb to become overrated, so props as well for a job well done. Plenty more evidence of this will follow, I'm sure, as the thread grows ......

Nevertheless, kudos, EVH. Job well done.

Jeff Beck still amazes me after over forty years. EVH while talented, bores me now after thirty seconds. Dont take it personally, its my opinion.
Eddies a handful of parlour tricks. Cool at first, but stales quickly.

Eddie wasnt the first to do hammer ons, and even today is far from the best at it.
Im one of those guys that considers flash/speed guitar playing dated.
Call me a cork sniffer but I prefer tone and technique.

What I meant was, that as cool as it was back then to hear Eddie noodle up and down the fretboard, after a while it became boring and repatitious.

I think you knew thats what I meant, youre just being argumentative. I was going
to call you a douche but decided to rise above it.

I too was blown away in '78 when I first heard Van Halen. I was 15 and just beginning to play guitar. Its been said before, not since Hendrix has a player taken the world by storm.

On a side note...

Remember when you first saw a magician pull a rabbit out of his hat?
Watch him do that same trick for 30 years. Does it still give you the same thrill?

Eruption, or any EVH is detestible. He's awesome technical-wise, but emotion is non-existent. I mean eruption is just all of his tricks on one "song" if you can call it that. I mean anyone could put a few licks together. I heard he was just playing around and came across those licks and they happened to be in the same key so he published it. I mean little wing is so much better in my opinion.

I'm sorry but eruption is just out of time guitar wanking, and as for the rest meh there okay.

Eruption, like someone said, is basically guitar wanking. There's not even a proper structure to it. It has a good tapping part, but it would be hell of a lot better with some sort of form.

[Jarlaxle]

What I wanted for Christmas in 1976? That's an easy one!



Make mine a 455/4-speed with A/C, "Honeycomb" wheels, 3.08 limited-slip axle, cruise control, and solid roof...preferably in silver over black.

Actually, forget that, I'll take a (used) 1974 T/A, with the fire-breathing Super Duty 455 under the hood!

the 73 was better yanno, and VERY underrated at 310hp advertised.....

73 and 74 SD were mechanically identical...and the 74 had the better front clip.

[Gob]

Worth noting also is that Led Zep didn't really hit the "pace changers" criteria fully until Zep 2. Zep 1 was mainly left overs from Page's stint in the Yardbrirds, and reworking of blues standards.

Now that I'm home;

Communication breakdown: Nicked the ostinato from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown"
Good times bad times: original.
Your time is going to come: Based on a Bach fugue played by Jones
How many more times: Ripped off from "How many more years" by Howlin Wolf, includes snatches from Albert King's"The Hunter." The bass riff is taken from The Yardbirds reworking of "Smokestack Lightening" (Also has some riffs from Kisses Sweeter than Wine", Jimmy Rodgers, bizarre.)
Babe I'm going to leave you: Reworking of a traditional tune, Joan Baez used a fair bit, originally recreated by A Bredon.
Dazed and Confused: Written by Jake Holmes, originally played with Relf and McCarty in The Yardbirds, a highlight of The Yardbirds show, credited to "Jake Holmes arranged by The Yardbirds" on the "Little Games" CD
Black Mountain Slide: Reworking of Page's Yardbirds number "White Summer." Also borrows from Bert Jansch (one of my favourite folk guitarists, ) "Black Water Slide". Legal clearance for it to be included on the album took ages to get .
I can't quit you baby: Willy Dixon. This and "You shook me" were released by Jeff Beck around that time, Page has been accused of nicking stuff from him for these tracks.

That leaves 6 songs that were written by the members of Zep but NEVER played by the yardbirds.[sic]

So now, who do we believe? Quaddy or errmmmmm... Jimmy Page?

(Taken from "When Giants Walked the Earth" Mick Wall and Jimmy Page. Pages 56-60 inc.)

You could have just simply read 'hammer of the gods' want to borrow my copy?

I think I can see now why you're so misinformed; your musical information on Zep comes from an unauthorised biography, one reviled by real Zep fans as it concentrates on their drug us and groupie shagging and offers little insight into their music and personalities. It was written by a guy who spent two weeks with the band, and who got most of his information from a heroin addicted ex-road manager (Richard Cole) who had a long standing grudge against them.

Try Mick Wall's book, it's the authorised one, and it's by a respected music journalist, who had unprecedented access to the band, most notably Page.

Jimmy Page:

I think I opened [Hammer of the Gods] up in the middle somewhere and started to read it, and I just threw it out the window. I was living by a river then, so it actually found its way to the bottom of the sea.

Robert Plant:

The guy who wrote that book [Hammer of the Gods] knew nothing about the band. I think he'd hung around us once. He got all his information from a guy who had a heroin problem who happened to be associated with us.

you claim to be from the UK, I sorta doubt it tho.

You claim to be an American fan of Van Halen, I can quite believe that.

Back to my original point, proof given;

"VH's arrival in 78 sparked the same worldwide change of pace that other artists did, like Dylan with Highway 61 revistied, Zep with 1, Pearl Jam with 10 "

None.

Proof given of his claim; "(Punk evolved) mid 70s for the US with the ramones....but yo uare right, it didnt have much of a worldwide audience until the 80's."

None.

[Sean]

Taking a leaf out of Quaddy's book I decided to share this thread with an old friend to get his thoughts on the matter. Sooner than expected I got this reply:

Hey buddy!

Interesting read.
Thoughts? I can give you thoughts.
Feel free to put them up there but I would prefer if you didn’t put my name right next to them. Google is not always my friend and I reserve the right to deny anything and everything!
The reason Quadriver might be confused about the originals on Zep 1 could be that many of the songs are other peoples but credited to Pagey as arranger. Come on, the man has never written an original thing in his life. And the secret is finally out, old can’t-string-two-notes-together-without-fucking-three-of-them-up-Pagey was so bad during those sessions that in the end his guitar parts were overdubbed by a brain damaged baboon to make it acceptable for release. The album was mainly live crap thrown together anyway.
On the other, I don’t think that a single album has such a great effect as many people think. The real definers did it over the span of a career. And if you want names for those who shaped the face of music try Giorgio Gomelsky and Simon Napier Bell. Without them there may never have been a Clapton, a Beck or a Pagey. Not to mention all the players inspired by them. Not to mention all of the other bands and artists they discovered/managed. Of course I’m not much of a guitar player as you know so my opinion probably doesn’t count for anything anyway.
Finally, thanks to Gob for sticking up for The Bestest Band Ever In The History Of The Whole World (TM) and good luck if you try to convince anyone who your source is!

Later!

[Name withheld by request]

PS Fuck you and fuck united too for what they did to the Wolves on Sat