Timster wrote:Great! You fucking tossers are coming to grips. I knew that I could count on the moral majority.
No Sean, the presumption is upon all the cocksucking motherfucking assholesucking born out of the arsehole placenta eating pigfuckers that presume to dictate some wannabe Emily Post CODE for KILLING PEOPLE! FUCK YOU! And every fucking dickhead that presumes to tell others how to behave whilst taking and or after taking another HUMAN BEING'S LIFE! FUCK YOU!
And have a fully shitty and fuck you day. *Spit!* @
Thanks for that mate! I truly deserve such a torrent of abuse for wishing that human beings would treat other human beings with a little respect. What an utter cunt I must be for wanting such a despicable thing!
BTW with all your ranting you neglected to answer my question. May I ask again how you would feel if this were enemy troops pissing on dead Marines?
BSG, there is a huge difference between a work of fiction like Weekend at Bernies and a piece of reality like this video. I'm sure most of us have learned to separate the two. To me it's certainly not a religion thing either, I see it more as a basic human decency thing.
I don't see how any comparison with Bin Laden can possibly work. Firstly, were we not assured that he was buried at sea in full accordance with his religious traditions? Secondly, you are comparing the man behind 9/11 with some soldiers who were doing their job just like the marines who killed them were...until those marines desecrated their bodies. That IMO is when they turned from marines who were doing their job into something lacking in fundamental human decency.
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
In terms of the basic requirements for Muslim burials, standard practice involves placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca. Burial at sea is rare in Islam, though Muslim websites say it is permitted in certain circumstances. One is during a long voyage where the body may decompose and pose a health hazard to a ship's passengers, an exception noted on Monday by Tunisian scholar Ahmed al-Gharbi. Another is if there is a risk of enemies digging up a and grave and exhuming or mutilating the body.
Dr Saud al-Fanisan, former dean of the faculty of sharia law in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, said that if a body was buried at sea it should be protected from fish. In the words of alislam.org, the body should be lowered into the water "in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet".
Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said of Bin Laden's burial: "They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam. Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances. This is not one of them."
Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's Abu Hanifa mosque, said: "What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims.
"It is not acceptable and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea. The body of Bin Laden should have been handed over to his family to look for a country to bury him."
The radical Lebanon-based cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed said: "The Americans want to humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the interest of the US administration."
The Egyptian analyst and lawyer Montasser el-Zayat said Bin Laden's sea burial was designed to prevent his grave from becoming a shrine. But an option was an unmarked grave. "They don't want to see him become a symbol," he said. "But he is already a symbol in people's hearts."
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
The Taliban are not the recognized military of Afghanistan. They are oppressive religious zealots who have terrorized their own people for years, and who harbored Al Qaeda prior to 9/11.
It's an aside, but I really don't get the hangups over corpses. Aside from spread of disease issues which make proper disposal an issue, I'm not too concerned about dead people. I'm much more concerned about the living.
There are now 7 billion people on the planet. At some point don't we have to be done with the whole burial ritual? Where will we put all the corpses? I think it makes far more sense to mandate cremation. But then I find religion to be ridiculous.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
Not quite sure whose argument you are putting forward with that contradictory (bolded by me) and slightly sensationalist (italicised by me) article BSG...
In terms of the basic requirements for Muslim burials, standard practice involves placing the body in a grave with the head pointed toward the holy city of Mecca. Burial at sea is rare in Islam, though Muslim websites say it is permitted in certain circumstances. One is during a long voyage where the body may decompose and pose a health hazard to a ship's passengers, an exception noted on Monday by Tunisian scholar Ahmed al-Gharbi. Another is if there is a risk of enemies digging up a and grave and exhuming or mutilating the body.
Dr Saud al-Fanisan, former dean of the faculty of sharia law in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, said that if a body was buried at sea it should be protected from fish. In the words of alislam.org, the body should be lowered into the water "in a vessel of clay or with a weight tied to its feet".
Mohammed al-Qubaisi, Dubai's grand mufti, said of Bin Laden's burial: "They can say they buried him at sea, but they cannot say they did it according to Islam. Sea burials are permissible for Muslims in extraordinary circumstances. This is not one of them."
Abdul-Sattar al-Janabi, who preaches at Baghdad's Abu Hanifa mosque, said: "What was done by the Americans is forbidden by Islam and might provoke some Muslims.
"It is not acceptable and it is almost a crime to throw the body of a Muslim man into the sea. The body of Bin Laden should have been handed over to his family to look for a country to bury him."
The radical Lebanon-based cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed said: "The Americans want to humiliate Muslims through this burial, and I don't think this is in the interest of the US administration."
The Egyptian analyst and lawyer Montasser el-Zayat said Bin Laden's sea burial was designed to prevent his grave from becoming a shrine. But an option was an unmarked grave. "They don't want to see him become a symbol," he said. "But he is already a symbol in people's hearts."
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
Sean wrote:
BSG, there is a huge difference between a work of fiction like Weekend at Bernies and a piece of reality like this video. I'm sure most of us have learned to separate the two. To me it's certainly not a religion thing either, I see it more as a basic human decency thing.
The sequels to Weekend at Bernie's however are an affront to human decency by any standard.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Tim, whether you want to acknowledge it or not there has *always* been a code for killing people, especially in the military -- whether it be the US or others (that has absolutely nothing to do with Emily Post). Would you want it any other way? Under that rock lies anarchy and terrorism, military juntas, and dictatorship. That we have the largest, finest, best-trained, most-professional fighting forces in the world -- who follow orders, who do not interefere with the peaceful transition of government -- is a source of pride. Once you start turning your head and accepting conduct that doesn't comply with that code you are heading down a long, fast, slippery slope.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
The closest I think I can get to understanding Timster's position (since he refuses to explain it despite requests), is that the nature of war is itself so obscene that to fixate on urinating on a corpse is to dwell on trivialities while failing to condemn the larger obscenity, which is the wanton destruction of human life (or something).
That's my charitable attempt to make sense of his ravings. I'm still going with the need for a meds adjustment as my primary hypothesis.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
And lord knows, I condemn war. And killing. Loudly and vociferously. But since we are there, we must adhere to our standards - or else become those who we condemn.
(I would have much rather had Quadaffi, Sadaam, and Bin Laden captured and tried, than killed outright, but I get why what they were not).
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: OBL's burial at sea; it was my understanding his remains were offered to his family for burial, but they refused them. In accordance to Muslim regulations of interning the body within two days of death; the swiftest. easiest choice was to then give him a sea burial. Naval standards include assuring the body is weighted.
This can actually be
problematic when it comes to making sure a full wooden coffin will sink. It's usually loaded with lead weights, but it takes so many to counter the natural buoyancy, that a full compliment of side-boys will often struggle with the effort of moving it over the side.
loCAtek wrote:Every occupation has its codes, who here will cast the first stone?
And in mine, when you violate that code, you are subject to punishments, including fines, loss of the privilege to practice, and depending on what the underlying violation was, jail. We have to report our compliance on an annual basis, and there are separate regulatory bodies set up solely to deal with ethical issues. We also have an obligation to police our entire profession.
I take my ethical responsibilities very seriously, and so do all of the attorneys I know. A Marine should do no less.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
The more she contributes to this thread and attempts to rationalize the actions of these turds, the more she convinces me that their actions were not aberrations at all, and in fact would be supported by their peers.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
bigskygal wrote:Hollywood makes a film about some young folks, a corpse & a beach house and it's a classic comedy. People LOLed about all kinds of disrespectful, demeaning handling of that corpse. But it's just pretend; no harm done.
I totally GET that doing this & filming it is very damaging to our military's reputation in the ME. I get that doing it bothers many of us; we'd like to believe our warriors were nobler than that.
But these are warriors who are pissing on the corpses of other warriors who would have happily killed them (and probably pissed on them) instead. It's true that the corpses of our warriors have not always been treated with respect, either. Pissing on a corpse is really nothing compared to tormenting a prisoner of war or tormenting or killing civilians. (Like the 3000 in NYC/DC.)
I was planning to make a similar point, actually...I have never heard of a corpse complaining about anything done to it.
I dunno. I see why folks are upset, but overall - why do we get so outraged over the treatment of dead human flesh? Is that a religious thing? Then why didn't everyone get OUTRAGED when Obama decided to dump bin Laden at sea? That was a slap in the face of Muslim dictates. Do we think the Taliban fighters are honorable toward us? Do we think they are even honorable toward their own women and girl children?
Spot on.
Let me get this straight: you can kill a guy with a rifle slug in the chest, a grenade fragment in the guts, a rifle butt to the skull, a sniper's round between the eyes, or you can burn him alive in a bunker with a flamethrower, and nobody says a word...but after he's dead, if you piss on him, everyone spazzes out. Can this get any more fucked up?!
Guinevere wrote:And lord knows, I condemn war. And killing. Loudly and vociferously. But since we are there, we must adhere to our standards - or else become those who we condemn.
(I would have much rather had Quadaffi, Sadaam, and Bin Laden captured and tried, than killed outright, but I get why what they were not).
Actually, Saddam WAS captured & tried. I'd haave preferred the troops that found him just dropping a grenade in his hole, but they didn't.
Jarlaxle wrote:Let me get this straight: you can kill a guy with a rifle slug in the chest, a grenade fragment in the guts, a rifle butt to the skull, a sniper's round between the eyes, or you can burn him alive in a bunker with a flamethrower, and nobody says a word
Correct, because that is done in situations where it's kill or be killed. You do, however, do what you can to avoid killing the defenseless i.e. civilians and prisoners.
So unless there is an analogous situation to urinating on a corpse (i.e. piss or be pissed on) then nothing justifies it.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
