Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

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Lord Jim
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Lord Jim »

Ok, I did miss that. So, still no reason for LJ to get all bitchy
Apparently that's not all you missed...

Someone sent me a PM with extensive quotes from a post from Andrewdriver that he posted in this thread before I put up my observations about his behavior, where the the delusional obsessed troll smears and slanders me to a fare the well....

Guess you missed that one....

Of course you have a pretty extensive record for somehow managing not to see a lot of what this troll has posted.
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Sean
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Sean »

Guin, I made no personal attacks on Andrew but he decided to bring my name into it anyway. If you read my last post you will see that I was wishing him luck in his attempt to pick a fight with me. I thought it fairly obvious that those who read it would realise my meaning. To clarify: I have no interest in getting into any kind of shit fight with Andrew in this thread.

I also think you should re-read my posts in this thread before you decide to accuse me of "whining and bitching" or having "called out Andrew".
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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Lord Jim
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Lord Jim »

Guin has a very keen eye for seeing comments made about Andrewdriver....

For the savage drivel that he spews?

Not so much....
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Guinevere
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Guinevere »

Sean, read above, I did admit to missing Andrew dragging you into it. Mea culpa.

LJ, seriously, read the snotty crap you posted first - it was a civil discussion before you intervened. And I suggested both you and Andrew should cut the shit. Equally.
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Andrew D
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Andrew D »

I "dragged" Sean into this? Oh, please. He "dragged" himself into this little shitpile:
Well I can't wait for "Loose Ends (2)".

Should be a belter!
If he didn't want to be involved, then he should not have involved himself.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Lord Jim »

Guin, are you referring to my pointing out the fact that we'd already had a discussion on this very limited, narrow topic that drew over a hundred posts? (probably closer to 200) You figure that justified what he followed up with? Really?

Even if a poster I respected had started a new thread on a topic that had been pretty much exhausted, (more than exhausted) I most probably would have made the same observation, in the same sardonic way. There was nothing "uncivil" about it.

And with 99% of the people here, I would probably get a response in the same light-hearted sarcastic vein...

I can only think of one other poster here besides Andrewdriver who is so psychologically insecure, mentally unbalanced and filled with toxic bile as to let loose with the kind of garbage he posted.
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Andrew D »

Guinevere wrote:LJ, seriously, read the snotty crap you posted first - it was a civil discussion before you intervened. And I suggested both you and Andrew should cut the shit. Equally.
So getting back to the substance of the matter, is it possible for a person to have more than one "native language"?

That comes around to a familiar condundrum: Without thought, there is no language; and without language, there is no thought.

Scooter has offered the example of his own life: He learned English and Italian in his infancy. Were they both his "native languages"?

Did he think in English and then translate that thought into Italian? Did he think in in Italian and then translate his thought into English? Did he sometimes think in one language and then translate to the other, and other times think in the other language and then translate into the one?

I have no way of knowing -- I inhabhit only my own mind, if even that -- but I am curious to find out.
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Andrew D »

Lord Jim wrote:... psychologically insecure, mentally unbalanced and filled with toxic bile ....
Mirror, mirror, on the wall ....
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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Rick
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Rick »

That comes around to a familiar condundrum: Without thought, there is no language; and without language, there is no thought.
Someone can't think they are hungry?

If someone is born profoundly deaf and learns to sign.

What is their native tongue?
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Sue U »

Andrew D wrote:Did he think in English and then translate that thought into Italian? Did he think in in Italian and then translate his thought into English? Did he sometimes think in one language and then translate to the other, and other times think in the other language and then translate into the one?
I started learning French at a relatively early age (8) but it wasn't until I was about 15 or 16 that I finally "got it." One day, I just found myself able to speak without having to translate in my head; it was really like a switch turning on. I was thinking and speaking at the same time and it was all coming out in very good French. I could switch back and forth between English and French without a second thought. I was able to do that for the next few years while I still took French classes in school/college, but now I probaby couldn't even carry on a simple conversation, for sheer lack of use. However, I can't imagine that I could ever forget how to speak English, and I think that must be some kind of difference.
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Andrew D »

Does one "think" that one is hungry, keld feldspar? When my stomach is empty and growling, I "feel" hunger, but do I "think" that I am hungry?

Yes, I can, if I go through the process, "think" that I am hungry, but is my initial feeling/thought/concept/etc. of hunger really "thinking"?

If I am sad, do I "think" that I am sad? Or do I "feel" sad, with or without thinking?
If someone is born profoundly deaf and learns to sign.

What is their native tongue?
Sign, I presume. And quite likely a version of sign which does not correspond precisely to the extant versions taught to deaf people.

Which, again, brings up the question: Without some version of sign, are those people thinking at all? Or is the thinking so intimately linked to the signing that only by virtue of signing are those people engaged in thinking?

And it isn't about deaf people in particular: The same question applies to those of us who hear. Without some version of language -- spoken, written, or whatever -- are we really engaged in thinking?

Have you ever had a thought not expressed, and inexpressible, in words? I have had many such feelings, but I would not describe them as thoughts. I would describe them as sensations -- akin to how I would describe sun-induced warmth on my shoulder.

If you encounter a very hot thing with your fingers, and your natural response is to pull away, is that a thought? Do you think to yourself "This is hot, and it could burn me, so I should pull away from it"? Or do you have a reaction -- pulling away -- that is not a thought at all?
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Rick »

If you encounter a very hot thing with your fingers, and your natural response is to pull away, is that a thought? Do you think to yourself "This is hot, and it could burn me, so I should pull away from it"? Or do you have a reaction -- pulling away -- that is not a thought at all?
And if you reached to see if it was hot or cold?

Can one really NOT think?

Watch someone one day, they never say anything to you yet you think, they communicate.

What language is that?
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Timster
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Timster »

keld feldspar wrote:
If you encounter a very hot thing with your fingers, and your natural response is to pull away, is that a thought? Do you think to yourself "This is hot, and it could burn me, so I should pull away from it"? Or do you have a reaction -- pulling away -- that is not a thought at all?
And if you reached to see if it was hot or cold?
My first thought was, if I encounter a Hot thing with my fingers; is it a stove? I could use the heat right now...Second was my reaction to touching a Hot thing was does she want to fuck? See? It's all about perspective.


Okay Keld, now you are just being argumenitive... LMAO
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Gob »

Manx Gaelic is being slowly resurrected too

Also; Other cases of language revitalization which have seen some degree of success are Irish, Welsh, Hawaiian and to a lesser extent Navajo, which was used for a WWII radio code never deciphered by the Japanese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_death
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Rick
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Re: Loose Ends (1): Hebrew Is The Only Resurrected Language

Post by Rick »

Bottom line:

After several courses on communication I have been told we cannot NOT communicate.

Soooo if communication requires thought and we cannot NOT cummunicate...

We cannot NOT think.

Now if you chose to change that paradigm be my guest however I think you would have to notify someone wouldn't you?
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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