We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

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Sue U
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We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Sue U »

Here's your Depressing Scientific News Of The Day: People, being both ignorant and incompetent, are fundamentally too dumb to recognize actual good ideas, so politics is doomed to be dumb, forever, the end.

Might as well start drinking early today, 'cause I give up.
People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say
by Natalie Wolchover, Life's Little Mysteries Staff Writer
Date: 28 February 2012 Time: 12:35 PM ET

The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies.

The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments.

As a result, no amount of information or facts about political candidates can override the inherent inability of many voters to accurately evaluate them. On top of that, "very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is," Dunning told Life's Little Mysteries.

He and colleague Justin Kruger, formerly of Cornell and now of New York University, have demonstrated again and again that people are self-delusional when it comes to their own intellectual skills. Whether the researchers are testing people's ability to rate the funniness of jokes, the correctness of grammar, or even their own performance in a game of chess, the duo has found that people always assess their own performance as "above average" — even people who, when tested, actually perform at the very bottom of the pile. [Incompetent People Too Ignorant to Know It]

We're just as undiscerning about the skills of others as about ourselves. "To the extent that you are incompetent, you are a worse judge of incompetence in other people," Dunning said. In one study, the researchers asked students to grade quizzes that tested for grammar skill. "We found that students who had done worse on the test itself gave more inaccurate grades to other students." Essentially, they didn't recognize the correct answer even when they saw it.

The reason for this disconnect is simple: "If you have gaps in your knowledge in a given area, then you’re not in a position to assess your own gaps or the gaps of others," Dunning said. Strangely though, in these experiments, people tend to readily and accurately agree on who the worst performers are, while failing to recognize the best performers.

The most incompetent among us serve as canaries in the coal mine signifying a larger quandary in the concept of democracy; truly ignorant people may be the worst judges of candidates and ideas, Dunning said, but we all suffer from a degree of blindness stemming from our own personal lack of expertise.

***
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/219 ... cracy.html
GAH!

Liberty1
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Liberty1 »

Feel better, it's a good thing we don't live in a democracy then and never have.

The US has been hugely succesful as a result.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

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Sue U
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Sue U »

Liberty1 wrote:Feel better, it's a good thing we don't live in a democracy then and never have.

The US has been hugely succesful as a result.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
GAH!

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Long Run
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Long Run »

Well, if the pointy headed researchers can provide a reason to make today an early St. Patrick's Day, then maybe they've done something useful. ;)

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Sue U
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Sue U »

Meet me at the bar in 20 minutes.
GAH!

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Rick
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Rick »

The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments.
His assumption is that the most qualified are the one's that are actually running for office...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Gob
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Gob »

Sue U wrote:Here's your Depressing Scientific News Of The Day: People, being both ignorant and incompetent, are fundamentally too dumb to recognize actual good ideas, so politics is doomed to be dumb, forever, the end.

Might as well start drinking early today, 'cause I give up.
The American People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists Say
by Natalie Wolchover, Life's Little Mysteries Staff Writer
Date: 28 February 2012 Time: 12:35 PM ET
Fixed that for you! ;)
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Crackpot
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Crackpot »

this coming from a guy that thinkks rock climbing with an infant is a good idea.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

dgs49
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by dgs49 »

This does not just apply to "American people," but to general populations, world-wide.

And this is not "news." The Founding Fathers left nothing of importance for The People to decide. The only thing The People could do was to elect their HR representative.

The most discouraging thing about U.S. Presidential elections (also applies to others) is that for every asute voter who is aware of the issues and votes conscientiously, there are several who vote for (or against) a candidate based on prejudices, ignorance, or - worst of all - a misunderstanding of what the candidate has said. This is why I've been so aggravated about the countless distortions of Santorum's remarks. He is not my dream candidate, but for Christ's sake, criticise him for things that are real, not imaginary.

My general impression about the major events in Europe these days is that while there is much to be said for the "Prime Minister" paradigm as opposed to ours, European politicians seem to be governing in spite of what the people want, rather than to further what the people want. So while they rarely get a Bonehead in the top office, their governance is no better than ours, over all.

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Crackpot
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Crackpot »

Maybe we should post warnings for the humo(u)r impaired.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by BoSoxGal »

At least there's a bright side:
Mato Nagel, a sociologist in Germany, recently implemented Dunning and Kruger's theories by computer-simulating a democratic election. In his mathematical model of the election, he assumed that voters' own leadership skills were distributed on a bell curve — some were really good leaders, some, really bad, but most were mediocre — and that each voter was incapable of recognizing the leadership skills of a political candidate as being better than his or her own. When such an election was simulated, candidates whose leadership skills were only slightly better than average always won.

Nagel concluded that democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."
Oh wait a second . . . what about Dubya?!?

I'll join you at the bar - we can drink a round in honor of the SCOTUS.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Lord Jim
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Lord Jim »

Strop, I'm sorry to have to tell you, that this dumb thing may be catching....

Sure the Australian electorate was intelligent enough to elect John Howard as Prime Minister four times, but since then they've hit the dumb button twice in a row....
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Gob
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Gob »

Nah just once, deselecting Rudd was a major fail.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

dgs49
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by dgs49 »

Is "leadership" the most important qualification?

How about intelligence? Relevant Education? Knowledge? Experience? The ability to recognize talent in others?

Not to get personal, but let's give Barry the intelligence and education parts, but he is a fuckup because he (1) has never had a real job, and (2) has never had an executive positon before. But as a "leader," I suppose he is no worse than many previous Presidents - better than some.

I have worked for great leaders in the private sector who were terribly misguided and led their organizations into major failures. The most intelligent, dynamic leader I ever worked for has decades of failure in his wake. He could never satisfy himself with a $5 million deal, and had to strive for the billion dollar deal, where fell flat on his face.

Liberty1
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Liberty1 »

Not to get personal, but let's give Barry the intelligence and education parts, but he is a fuckup because he (1) has never had a real job, and (2) has never had an executive positon before. But as a "leader," I suppose he is no worse than many previous Presidents - better than some.
I disagree. I think BO is a pretty good leader and has "accomplished" quite a lot. I believe he is simply an idealogue with absolutely no common sense and no real world experience.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain

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Gob
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Gob »

dgs49 wrote:
Not to get personal, but let's give Barry the intelligence and education parts, but he is a fuckup because he (1) has never had a real job, and (2) has never had an executive positon before.

That is a problem of your system.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Lord Jim
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Lord Jim »

That is a problem of your system.
And the problem of your system, is that it produces, (for the most part) a series of mediocre party hacks who rise through the ranks by developing highly honed skills for butt kissing and chit acquiring...

Why do I feel like we've had this conversation before? :P
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Gob
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Re: We're too dumb for democracy, apparently

Post by Gob »

Because no matter how many times I tell you, you still get it wrong! :D
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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