I bought a lovely red Mercedes C-class sedan a little over three years ago from a used car dealer in Virginia. It is actually a great car, fun to drive, nice to look at, very economical (if you can forgive the high-test gas requirement), and comfortable. But frankly, it is not a car that I should own, since I am paranoid about getting screwed when having work done on my car, and...it's a fucking Mercedes, after all.
I have had no problems with it, although I have been a little irritated by the inflated cost of a few things I've had done at the local M-B dealership. OTOH, the dealer has done a few little things under warranty that weren't actually covered (time is expired).
I'm a little tired of it and am thinking about trading it on a sports car of comparable value. I'll pay a few thousand to make a deal happen, but hasically I'm looking for a toy to replace the Mercedes and I don't want to have to borrow any money to do it.
I made a tentative offer to a dealer on a Nissan 350Z last week, and he sent me a note back and said that there was information on the CARFAX that "greatly decreased" the value of my car. The implication was that he didn't want my car at any price.
Since I've never had any reason to wonder about the history of the car (a mistake I'll never make again), I hadn't done a CARFAX, so I went ahead and did one for my own edification. It turns out that in 2007 the car had been involved in a fender bender (literally) after which the left fender and headlight were replaced. Looking at the car again after reading this, there is absolutely nothing there to see. It is perfect. Not only the fender itself, but the gaps between the fender and the hood, door, etc., are narrow and indistinguishable from the other gaps on the car. Also, I had a 4-wheel alignment done a few months after I got the car and there weren't any issues with that, which to me indicates the impact of the 2007 accident was not serious. Parenthetically, I had the hood repainted in October to take care of some paint chips and the body man was surprised that he couldn't find the color plate under the hood. Maybe it was on the original left fender? I don't know.
The CARFAX itself has a statement on it that any prospective buyer should inspect the fender to assure that the repair was properly done, and that this "incident" could reasonably be expected to reduce the RETAIL VALUE of the car by about $180.00.
So...conceding that I was not as prudent as I should have been when I bought the car, did I get screwed? As far as I'm concerned, the car looks fine and is fine. Having driven the car for three plus years I think I can confidently say that there are no residual mechanical issues from this accident.
I don't think I can argue with any dealership who wants to refuse it in trade or to cut its value (about $13,500) dramatically, since they have to sell the thing, and any astute buyer is going to want to see the CARFAX and might be scared off by the accident report. But I wouldn't give it up for much less than the NADA/KBB value. Worst case, I'll be hanging on to the car for a while longer.
Would you walk away from a car that had the following entries in it's history:
November 19, 2007 - "Accident reported involving rear impact. It hit another motor vehicle."
November 21, 2007 - "Parts requested for repair: Left fender, headlight assembly."
One might note there is a discrepancy here. If the driver had a rear impact, hitting another vehicle, then the fender would not have to be replaced. More likely someone backed into this car. Regardless, cars don't generally travel very fast in reverse, do they?
CARFAX Blues
Re: CARFAX Blues
dgs49 wrote:
I'm a little tired of it and am thinking about trading it on a sports car of comparable value.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: CARFAX Blues
I did look into a corvette. Oddly enough, I don't care for them because they do everything so effortlessly. No screeching tires, leaning body, none of it. They just go about the business of going fast, with no sweat.
Boring.
Boring.
Re: CARFAX Blues
Viper?
If I had money to piss away on a "toy" I'd be in the market for a Porsche, but that's just me.
It sounds to me like your making a big deal out of a car fax report for a minor fender bender.
BFD.
Sell the Benz for what other comparable models are selling for in your area, take the cash, and buy something already!
If I had money to piss away on a "toy" I'd be in the market for a Porsche, but that's just me.
It sounds to me like your making a big deal out of a car fax report for a minor fender bender.
BFD.
Sell the Benz for what other comparable models are selling for in your area, take the cash, and buy something already!
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: CARFAX Blues
I'M not the one making a big deal of the accident report. The question is whether a reasonable buyer would make a big deal of it.
I showed it to my son, and he said he wouldn't buy a car with any accident showing on the CARFAX. Neither would my wife.
I think I have an ethical obligation to mention it in my advertising, and I'm doing so as plainly as I can, but I'll just have to see what impact it has.
I showed it to my son, and he said he wouldn't buy a car with any accident showing on the CARFAX. Neither would my wife.
I think I have an ethical obligation to mention it in my advertising, and I'm doing so as plainly as I can, but I'll just have to see what impact it has.
Re: CARFAX Blues
I'm still looking for another car, both on line and in person. I make a full disclosure about the incident mentioned in the CARFAX. I'm finding that some dealers don't care at all and others want to reduce the value of my car by 50%.
One of the striking things that comes out of looking for a car is the truly outrageous quotes that some dealers put on the table. They assume that you are so infatuated by the car you have just driven that you will throw aside all rationality and just sign on the dotted line - provided that they can get the car payment to a level that is tolerable.
They wouldn't be doing it if some customers didn't accept those offers - or accept them as a reasonable starting point for discussions.
My starting point has two basic tenets: (1) I don't care what the "asking" price is for your car; I already determined its market value before I got here, and (2) I know what my car is worth, so don't bother telling me what you think it's worth.
The only relevant number is the cash difference, and everything else is just so much oral flatulence.
One of the striking things that comes out of looking for a car is the truly outrageous quotes that some dealers put on the table. They assume that you are so infatuated by the car you have just driven that you will throw aside all rationality and just sign on the dotted line - provided that they can get the car payment to a level that is tolerable.
They wouldn't be doing it if some customers didn't accept those offers - or accept them as a reasonable starting point for discussions.
My starting point has two basic tenets: (1) I don't care what the "asking" price is for your car; I already determined its market value before I got here, and (2) I know what my car is worth, so don't bother telling me what you think it's worth.
The only relevant number is the cash difference, and everything else is just so much oral flatulence.
Re: CARFAX Blues
I guess you've NEVER stepped inside a car dealership?One of the striking things that comes out of looking for a car is the truly outrageous quotes that some dealers put on the table. They assume that you are so infatuated by the car you have just driven that you will throw aside all rationality and just sign on the dotted line - provided that they can get the car payment to a level that is tolerable.
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: CARFAX Blues
I bought my first car in 1967, and have purchased at least 60 cars and motorcycles since then, about half from dealers and rest from private parties.
In my vast experience, there are dealers (maybe it's the individual salesman, I can't say) who treat everyone like an idiot and there are dealers that assess the particular customer and tailor a starting position that HAS SOME POSSIBILITY of resulting in a sale.
In my current campaign to trade my M-B sedan for a "sports car, I have had dealers who were willing to give me a reasonably fair number over the phone, without even seeing my car (other than photos). I had one M-B dealer make me a reasonable offer to trade on a Nissan 350Z coupe, but I have decided to go for the roadster.
But there have been a couple dealers (one in person and two by internet) who have laid numbers on me that were so far out of line that you just have to wonder what the thought process is. These people know that I have done my research in advance - we have conversations about looking up the values of the respective cars at Edmunds, KBB, and NADA, and I tell them that I have conducted searches at AutoTrader, Cars-dot-com, and Vehix. So they know that I have some idea what my car is worth and what their car is worth.
And they still lay some bullshit number on the table that is completely indefensible. Do they really think I'm going to even start negotiating at a number that is $8-10 thousand dollars off what it should be, based on the sources that WE HAVE JUST DISCUSSED?
The car I drove the other day was an '05 Crossfire, well equipped, low mileage, and with a 6-speed stick. It is worth about $16k. My trade is worth - depending on the source - between $12-15k. The offer I got was $11.5k PLUS MY CAR for the Crossfire! In effect, he was offering me about $4,000 for my car. Did he really think I would start negotiating from that point?
Was he stupid or crazy?
My only possible conclusion is that some people, when confronted with an offer like that, would start negotiating and buy the car for something in that range.
Which is pitiful. Who leads these people in out of the rain?
In my vast experience, there are dealers (maybe it's the individual salesman, I can't say) who treat everyone like an idiot and there are dealers that assess the particular customer and tailor a starting position that HAS SOME POSSIBILITY of resulting in a sale.
In my current campaign to trade my M-B sedan for a "sports car, I have had dealers who were willing to give me a reasonably fair number over the phone, without even seeing my car (other than photos). I had one M-B dealer make me a reasonable offer to trade on a Nissan 350Z coupe, but I have decided to go for the roadster.
But there have been a couple dealers (one in person and two by internet) who have laid numbers on me that were so far out of line that you just have to wonder what the thought process is. These people know that I have done my research in advance - we have conversations about looking up the values of the respective cars at Edmunds, KBB, and NADA, and I tell them that I have conducted searches at AutoTrader, Cars-dot-com, and Vehix. So they know that I have some idea what my car is worth and what their car is worth.
And they still lay some bullshit number on the table that is completely indefensible. Do they really think I'm going to even start negotiating at a number that is $8-10 thousand dollars off what it should be, based on the sources that WE HAVE JUST DISCUSSED?
The car I drove the other day was an '05 Crossfire, well equipped, low mileage, and with a 6-speed stick. It is worth about $16k. My trade is worth - depending on the source - between $12-15k. The offer I got was $11.5k PLUS MY CAR for the Crossfire! In effect, he was offering me about $4,000 for my car. Did he really think I would start negotiating from that point?
Was he stupid or crazy?
My only possible conclusion is that some people, when confronted with an offer like that, would start negotiating and buy the car for something in that range.
Which is pitiful. Who leads these people in out of the rain?
Re: CARFAX Blues
Lighten up, the dlr is trying to make a PROFIT (yanow "Free Enterprise" and all that stuff).
Buy a car already and stop your incessant whinning!
Buy a car already and stop your incessant whinning!
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: CARFAX Blues
I have accepted an on-line trade offer and will be picking up the car early next week.
I am not whining. I am asking about the thought process that leads dealers (or salesmen) to propose absurd prices, knowing that most often it will lead to a non-sale, when one's odds increase dramatically - I would think - if you just put a reasonable number on the table.
There is no question that the salesman and dealership make more money on an inflated price, but the question is how to maximize profit: few sales with large margins or many sales with lesser margins. My inclination (in my own life, as well) is to put a reasonable number on the table and say, in effect, take it or leave it. It has worked well for me and saved me a lot of time and aggravation.
I can also see the rationale for assessing a potential customer as someone who is gullible - even playing into it - but when someone walks in who obviously has done the research, what's the point of playing games. (I long ago quit being "insulted" by this stuff. Now I think it's funny, and just walk out).
After checking out a car I tell the salesman you have ONE opportunity to walk away from the desk to consult with someone else, and don't keep me waiting more than five minutes. After that I'm gone. Most seem to understand that I'm not playing games.
But others...?
I am not whining. I am asking about the thought process that leads dealers (or salesmen) to propose absurd prices, knowing that most often it will lead to a non-sale, when one's odds increase dramatically - I would think - if you just put a reasonable number on the table.
There is no question that the salesman and dealership make more money on an inflated price, but the question is how to maximize profit: few sales with large margins or many sales with lesser margins. My inclination (in my own life, as well) is to put a reasonable number on the table and say, in effect, take it or leave it. It has worked well for me and saved me a lot of time and aggravation.
I can also see the rationale for assessing a potential customer as someone who is gullible - even playing into it - but when someone walks in who obviously has done the research, what's the point of playing games. (I long ago quit being "insulted" by this stuff. Now I think it's funny, and just walk out).
After checking out a car I tell the salesman you have ONE opportunity to walk away from the desk to consult with someone else, and don't keep me waiting more than five minutes. After that I'm gone. Most seem to understand that I'm not playing games.
But others...?