France has too many French

[Gob]

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has said there are too many foreigners in France and the system for integrating them is "working more and more badly".

In a TV debate, Mr Sarkozy defended his plan to cut the number of new arrivals in half if he is re-elected next month.

Mr Sarkozy is trailing in the opinion polls behind the Socialist candidate Francois Hollande.

He is also competing for conservative voters with the far-right National Front party led by Marine le Pen.

The president said while immigration could be a boon for France, it needed to be controlled more tightly through tougher qualification rules for residency.

Mr Sarkozy, whose father was a Hungarian immigrant, also said he wanted to restrict some benefit payments to immigrants who had been in the country for 10 years.

He has often made controversial comments on race and immigration issues, sharply dividing opinion in France.

In 2005, just before the Paris riots, he described young delinquents in the Paris suburbs as "racaille", meaning rabble.

As president, he has already pushed through tough new immigration rules, including the controversial deportation of Roma gypsies.

On Tuesday, his prime minister Francois Fillon caused dismay among Muslim and Jewish groups by suggesting the religious slaughter of animals was out of date.

The controversy started when a TV documentary said last month that all the abattoirs in Paris region only produced halal meat.

So far the election campaign seems to have made relatively little impact on voters.

The latest opinion poll published on Tuesday by CSA showed the Socialist leader Francois Hollande widening his lead over President Sarkozy.

It also suggested that the Socialist leader would win decisively by 54% to 46% in a second round of voting on 6 May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17280647

[Sean]

It's true though...

I've been to France and every bugger that lives there is either a British ex-pat or a foreigner!

[Lord Jim]

Before the French decide to return the Socialist Party to power, they might want to check and make sure that the Germans have the cash to bail them out too....

[Gob]

Maybe the French haven't cottoned on to the fact that Germany's National Socialist party is a bit different to theirs.

[rubato]

Germany spends more on social welfare than France:




The debts owed by Greece (and the other nations in crisis) are primarily owed to both French and German banks.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has said there are too many foreigners in France and the system for integrating them is "working more and more badly"....
He is also competing for conservative voters with the far-right National Front party led by Marine le Pen.
...

As president, he has already pushed through tough new immigration rules, including the controversial deportation of Roma gypsies.

On Tuesday, his prime minister Francois Fillon caused dismay among Muslim and Jewish groups by suggesting the religious slaughter of animals was out of date.
...
It also suggested that the Socialist leader would win decisively by 54% to 46% in a second round of voting on 6 May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17280647

It is transparent that this is what he is doing. He is campaigning like a Republican "anti-immigration" racist. Nasty.

yrs,
rubato

[dgs49]

This discussion is a good example of the idiocy of rampant liberalism.

Immigration has historically been great for Western nations, including France. This is because immigrants USED TO come to a country because they admired the country and its culture, and wanted to come and work there to acheive "success," however they defined it.

And the Social Democracies of Europe had to promote immigration because, believing wholeheartedly in "family planning" they are demographically dying out - reproducing so feebly that they are not even replacing their current populations. Thus an influx of immigrants is necessary to pay the taxes to fund the generous retirement and healthcare costs of the natives.

But the Socialist Democracies made it so beneficial to emigrate that they have seen hordes of people who DO NOT admire or want to emulate the local culture, and DO NOT want to work hard to make a success for themselves and their children. They merely want to live in their own cultural ghetto's and take advantage of the local Social Safety Net.

It's fucked up. It's self-destructive. Sarkozy is 100% right. Immigration, both here and in Europe, MUST be controlled and limited to those immigrants who have resources that can contribute to the society. Only a Liberal could fail to see this.

[Gob]

But the Socialist Democracies made it so beneficial to emigrate that they have seen hordes of people who DO NOT admire or want to emulate the local culture, and DO NOT want to work hard to make a success for themselves and their children. They merely want to live in their own cultural ghetto's and take advantage of the local Social Safety Net.

I agree, people taking advantage of fairness and equity have soiled the system.

It's fucked up. It's self-destructive. Sarkozy is 100% right. Immigration, both here and in Europe, MUST be controlled and limited to those immigrants who have resources that can contribute to the society. Only a Liberal could fail to see this.

I agree. As do most "liberals".

[dgs49]

Actually, the liberals in this country are for free immigration to anyone who wants to come in.

More uneducated, government-teat-sucking Democrat voters, don't you see?

[Crackpot]

Yaeh and all conservtives want to stockpile guns and convert their homes into bunkers in preperation for armegeddon or the race war... or both.

[Gob]

Makes you wonder if Dave has ever met a liberal.

[Gob]

Yaeh and all conservtives want to stockpile guns and convert their homes into bunkers in preperation for armegeddon or the race war... or both.

And await the rapture which is forecast by the arrival of Obama the Antichrist.

[Lord Jim]

Strop, let me ask you a question...

In either the UK or Australia, is there some point in the electoral process...

Either during registration, or at the time of the vote...

Where those seeking to vote are required to provide some sort of identification or documentation that demonstrates that they are actually legally entitled to vote?

[Gob]

They are not.

You have to be on the register of electors, this is normally automatic.

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/


http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_australia.htm

[Lord Jim]

And how do the Liberals in those countries feel about that?

[Gob]

I don't know Jim, your idea of liberals doesn't travel well outside of the US.

[Gob]

To qualify that; I've not known any dissent from either side of the political spectrum about it, nor any great movement to have it changed.

[Lord Jim]

Good lord, I don't even see a section on that website that talks about the requirements for eligibility to vote...

Looks like your situation is even worse than ours, in terms of assuring that people who vote actually have the right to do so...

Of course you don't have the percentage of illegal aliens in your country that we do, so maybe that's why your system is so lax...

(Actually this surprises me; I had expected that the UK and Australia might do a better job in this regard; that any sensible democratic country would see as one of its minimal responsibilities the need to do its best to ensure the integrity of the vote.)

[Gob]

I'd be more worried about getting the legal residents to vote, than getting your illegals not to!

Who can register to vote?

You can register to vote if you are:

■16 years old or over and a British citizen or an Irish, qualifying Commonwealth or European Union citizen who is resident in the UK
If you are 16 or 17, you can only register if you will be 18 within the lifetime of the electoral register. You cannot vote until you are 18.

Below is a full list of Commonwealth and European Union countries. If you are a citizen of one of these countries, and resident in the UK, you are eligible to register to vote in UK elections. To qualify, Commonwealth citizens must be resident in the UK and either have leave to remain in the UK or not require such leave. The definition of a 'Commonwealth citizen' includes citizens of British Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories.

Citizens of the European Union (who are not Commonwealth citizens or Citizens of the Republic of Ireland) can vote in European and local elections in the UK, but are not able to vote in UK Parliamentary general elections or referendums.

Enrolment eligibility
Updated: 10 March 2011
Who is eligible to enrol?
Any person who:
•is 18* years of age or over, and
•is an Australian citizen**, or
•was a British subject on a Commonwealth electoral roll as at 25 January 1984. More information is available about British Subjects Eligibility; and
•has lived for at least one month at their current address.
*If a person is 17 years old and an Australian citizen, they may enrol but are not entitled to vote until they turn 18. If you will turn 18 years old between the announcement of the election (date of the writ) and polling day and have not already applied for provisional enrolment, you have until close of rolls to apply for enrolment.

**A person who expects to become an Australian citizen between the date of the writ and polling day and is not already enrolled will have until close of rolls to apply for provisional enrolment. Their enrolment will be confirmed once they have provided evidence that they have been granted citizenship.

[Sue U]

"Voter fraud" is a myth ginned up by the Republicans in order to hinder registration and suppress turnout by ethnic minorities who traditionally vote Democratic. It is pure political horseshit.

A 2011 Choice Magazine "Outstanding Academic Title"

Allegations that widespread voter fraud is threatening to the integrity of American elections and American democracy itself have intensified since the disputed 2000 presidential election. The claim that elections are being stolen by illegal immigrants and unscrupulous voter registration activists and vote buyers has been used to persuade the public that voter malfeasance is of greater concern than structural inequities in the ways votes are gathered and tallied, justifying ever tighter restrictions on access to the polls. Yet, that claim is a myth.

In The Myth of Voter Fraud, Lorraine C. Minnite presents the results of her meticulous search for evidence of voter fraud. She concludes that while voting irregularities produced by the fragmented and complex nature of the electoral process in the United States are common, incidents of deliberate voter fraud are actually quite rare. Based on painstaking research aggregating and sifting through data from a variety of sources, including public records requests to all fifty state governments and the U.S. Justice Department, Minnite contends that voter fraud is in reality a politically constructed myth intended to further complicate the voting process and reduce voter turnout.

She refutes several high-profile charges of alleged voter fraud, such as the assertion that eight of the 9/11 hijackers were registered to vote, and makes the question of voter fraud more precise by distinguishing fraud from the manifold ways in which electoral democracy can be distorted. Effectively disentangling misunderstandings and deliberate distortions from reality, The Myth of Voter Fraud provides rigorous empirical evidence for those fighting to make the electoral process more efficient, more equitable, and more democratic.

http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/boo ... 0100774960