Sale or return

[Scooter]

In this case she lied so as to dump her child like a bag of garbage. And you're right, it happens all too frequently.

[Rick]

Scoot I do NOT disagree that her behavior was despicable, however maybe now the process may be little more discerning.

Bottom line I think Justin is far better off than he would have been had she not sent him...

[Joe Guy]

If she had said he was going permanently, there was no way the airline was going to take him unless they knew there was a legal guardian waiting for him at the other end. IOW, she would have had to lie.

And the "responsible adult" part? A stranger who was paid $200 to return the kid to sender? There are so many ways that could have gone very wrong...

Yup!

Proof that she did something very stupid.

However, nothing did go wrong. So what is she guilty of doing other than something that might have gone wrong?

How could a jury or judge convict someone with no criminal motive for doing something that didn't harm anyone?

Just wondering.

[Scooter]

Motive to do harm isn't required to make a criminal act. Recklessness and depraved indifference would each be enough, and this was both.

And I'm tired of making this point over and over again and having you pretend it doesn't matter, so you won, ok? She's parent of the year, pin the medal on her yourself.

[Sean]

Had she arranged for an alsatian to meet him at the other end.

Perhaps we'll never know...

[Joe Guy]

...I'm tired of making this point over and over again and having you pretend it doesn't matter, so you won, ok? She's parent of the year, pin the medal on her yourself.

I'm not pretending that your argument doesn't matter. I'm disagreeing with you.

Also, I'm not trying to win anything. I'm attempting to understand what crime was committed by this adoptive mother.

You haven't convinced me that a crime was committed.

Maybe someone else can do that.

[Lord Jim]

It appears to me from reading the articles that have been posted about this, that this woman may have had legal counsel prior to doing what she did in order to avoid being in technical violation of the specific relevant laws that apply here...

Intuitively and emotionally, it feels as though she ought to be in violation of some law...

But whether or not she is would depend on the specific provisions of the applicable laws, both state and federal....

And then of course on top of that, you have the issue of whether or not her behavior as measured against those laws falls into gray areas that would be covered by the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in terms of prosecuting her....

The prosecutors who examined this may have concluded that whether or not she technically violated a law is sufficiently questionable that they don't believe they could meet the burden of proving it beyond a reasonable doubt...

[dales]

Had she arranged for an alsatian to meet him at the other end.

Perhaps we'll never know...

LOL- I wet my pants!

[Lord Jim]

I wet my pants!

I'm going to store that image in the deep, deep recess of my mind where I put the image of Beer Sponge posting naked....

[Sean]

Maybe you can borrow Sponge's pants Dales...

[Jarlaxle]

Many Russian and eastern European orphans have been institutionalized and suffer from extreme RAD and many other developmental issues. There are plentiful stories of American families adopting such children who end up dealing with horrifically troubled kids. I'm not condoning what this woman did, but I also have doubts that the Daily Mail story indicating that Russian foster mother says he's without issues can be considered entirely credible, either.

Wasn't there a big scandal in the early to mid 1990's? I recall seeing stories about thousands of children adopted from the former Soviet Bloc (mostly Romania) that, due to poor treatment as babies in crowded orphanages (essentially, no affection & limited human contact), had all sorts of problems.

[Lord Jim]

Maybe you can borrow Sponge's pants Dales...

That's an excellent suggestion, as he doesn't appear to have any need for them...

[loCAtek]

Many Russian and eastern European orphans have been institutionalized and suffer from extreme RAD and many other developmental issues. There are plentiful stories of American families adopting such children who end up dealing with horrifically troubled kids. I'm not condoning what this woman did, but I also have doubts that the Daily Mail story indicating that Russian foster mother says he's without issues can be considered entirely credible, either.

Wasn't there a big scandal in the early to mid 1990's? I recall seeing stories about thousands of children adopted from the former Soviet Bloc (mostly Romania) that, due to poor treatment as babies in crowded orphanages (essentially, no affection & limited human contact), had all sorts of problems.

What? there was/is child trafficking in Russia; who'd a thunk it?

[Scooter]

Where did he say anything about child trafficking?

[Sean]

He didn't Scoot.

But lo's not going to let a little detail like that get in the way...

[loCAtek]

Isn't it obvious? Warehousing children in crowded orphanges, in order to sell them to the west? ...without any attempt at prior treatment?

[Scooter]

No, it isn't obvious. Where are you getting your information that someone is making money on the adoption of these children?

[BoSoxGal]

Children are warehoused in crowded/understaffed orphanages because the resources are not provided by the government to do better for them. This has nothing to do with trafficking of children.

[Beer Sponge]

Off topic, but would you guys leave my pants out of this thread! I did.

Jim, regarding the mental image, you're welcome!

[Gob]

Twins adopted by an American woman, 28, were found abandoned on a freezing Russian street with a note saying she no longer wanted them.



Sasha and Masha are just 15 months old and the 'cruelty' of the mother's rejection has led to a demand from the Kremlin's children's tsar Pavel Astakhov for a total ban on adoptions to American parents.

He branded the woman - who has not been identified and is now on the run - as an 'absolutely immoral person', and the case has been dubbed an 'outrage' by the Russian media.

It has alarming echoes of a 2010 episode in which Tennessee woman Torry Hansen sent her adopted seven-year-old Russian son Artem Saveliev on a plane back to Moscow alone with a message saying: 'I no longer wish to parent this child.'

Custodial staff in Russia's second city of St Petersburg discovered the twins - a boy and a girl - in sub-zero temperatures close to the front door of their institution.

'An unidentified man brought them in a pram and left quickly,' said the city's children's ombudsman Svetlana Agapitova.

A note found with the twins said she had 'given them up', it was reported.

'She decided to abandon the twins. Moreover, she opted not to do this in person,' Ms Agapitova said.

The twins were now being cared for at a children's hospital while a decision is made on their fate.

Officials said they were adopted six months ago in the Russian city of Tula by the woman who posed as a single mother and made a 'positive impression'.

A search warrant has been issued and she is wanted by Russian police. She was believed to be abroad, with one report saying she did not ask anyone to give the children back and claiming she has suffered a mental breakdown as a result of the scandal.

The woman reportedly lied when she adopted the children by failing to admit her US citizenship - and the fact that she was married to an American, who should have been vetted for his suitability as an adopted father, said officials.

When the authorities discovered this they demanded the adoptive mother give details of the man, and provide his consent to caring for the children.

'Soon after this, the children were found abandoned in an act of the most awful cruelty,' said a source.

Mr Astakhov condemned the woman's 'immoral and illegal act' and called for her to be stripped of her U.S. passport.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1owuaGdx5