Make Bradford British

[Gob]

I didn't revive an old dispute though. To do that I would have had to address the point to you, I didn't. I made a quip I knew Jim would find amusing.

We both damn well know we are not going to agree on that matter, so there would be no point resurecting it.


This may help.

[Andrew D]

We both damn well know we are not going to agree on that matter, so there would be no point resurecting [sic] it.

Nor will I agree that 2 + 2 = 19.

Nor will I agree that the Sun goes around the Earth.

[Sean]

Andrew, can you put a sock in it you cantankerous old git?
You're sounding sillier with every post you make on this thread.

[rubato]

Just curious, do they still wrap that concoction in newspapers?

(YEEECH!)

Its the carcinogens in the printers ink that make it good ...

yrs,
rubato

[Andrew D]

The sound which you are mistaking for silliness, Sean, is the sound of correctness.

And, yes, truth is often cantankerous.

Good thing, too.

[Sean]

LMAO - Actually I've changed my mind. Keep up the good work Andrew.
The first line of that last post was the funniest thing I've read in ages.

[Gob]

His humour lessons aren't going too well, Sean.

[Andrew D]

His humour lessons aren't going too well, Sean.

This is news?

My being humor-impaired is news?

Still and all, the fact remains that the number of people who have quoted, verbatim, dictionaries on the meaning of the phrase "native language" -- not cherry-picked among meanings of the the word "native" but quoted dictionary definitions of the phrase "native language" -- is exactly one.

Why do you suppose that that might be?

[Sean]

That record is stuck again...

[Gob]

Why do you suppose that that might be?

Some people realise that flogging a dead horse achieves nothing Andrew. You have your view on that matter, I have mine. I have without rancour, decided there is nothing to be gained by trying to persuade you otherwise, though I still believe you wrong, and dropped out of that debate. You may call it a victory to you of that makes you happy and/or proud. God knows you seem to need something to cheer you up.

[Andrew D]

You have your view on that matter, I have mine.

And only one of those views accords with the facts.

The stubborn, persistent, annoying, cantankerous facts.

[Gob]

Oh grow the fuck up will you?

[Jarlaxle]

Why do you suppose that that might be?

Some people realise that flogging a dead horse achieves nothing Andrew. You have your view on that matter, I have mine. I have without rancour, decided there is nothing to be gained by trying to persuade you otherwise, though I still believe you wrong, and dropped out of that debate. You may call it a victory to you of that makes you happy and/or proud. God knows you seem to need something to cheer you up.

Perhaps Prozac? Or maybe a prefrontal?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Ah! repartee. How I miss it.

I got 13 out of 24, failed my citizenship test and was astounded that wogs no longer begin at Calais.

Life - it's just one bleeding thing after another

Meade

[Andrew D]

Oh grow the fuck up will you?

Say that to your mirror, Gob. You resurrected the matter. I was perfectly content to let it lie where it was. You self-evidently were not. Why is that?

[The Hen]

Cornish is being used as a first language.

There are a number of families now in Cornwall that are teaching Cornish first to their children. That fits YOUR definition of a resurrected language.

Current status
Some families are now bringing up their children with Cornish as their first language. Cornish names are popular for children, pets, houses and boats. People are writing and performing songs and poetry in Cornish, and the language is taught in some schools and at the University of Exeter.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cornish.htm

Pesky things facts Andrew.

You ignored that information the last time you were banging on about Cornish not being a resurrected language unless it was being taught in that fashion.

Enjoy ignoring it again and lets leave this topic behind us, eh?

[Andrew D]

If you know of any identifiable living person who learned or is learning Cornish as her or his first language, please bring that knowledge forward.

Your quoted source, Hen, provides no support for its assertion. On what is that assertion based?

The only specific evidence which anyone has posted thus far for the proposition that Cornish is being learned by children -- a proposition which I have not disputed -- is that, as your quoted source puts it:

In 2010 a bilingual Cornish/English creche or Skol dy’Sadorn Kernewek (Cornish Saturday School) was set up.

But the guy who founded that school says flat-out that it is NOT teaching Cornish as a first language:

The project is run by Rhisiart Tal-e-bot, who cut his teeth in pre-school bilingual education while teaching English in the Basque country.

He said that several studies had proved there were considerable benefits to learning an additional language before the age of five.

"All research shows that children who learn a second language at an early age not only have a greater capacity for learning other languages in later life but find it easier to learn other subjects in general.

"This is the first time it has been tried with such young children in Cornwall and we are hopeful it will be a success.

"We begin by building routines in a homely atmosphere, with the aim of making Cornish part of their everyday lives."

That school, according to its own founder, exists to teach Cornish as "an additional language" -- "a second language".

Kowethas an Yeth Kernewek (the Cornish Language Fellowship) says that Cornish has been dead since the nineteeneth century. It traces the history of Cornish since then -- up through the publication in 2009 of "the most comprehensive Cornish-English / English-Cornish dictionary to date, containing detailed etymologies and historical references."

But the Cornish Language Fellowship makes no reference to any living person who learned or is learning Cornish as her or his first langauge. If there is such a person, wouldn't the Cornish Language Fellowship be likely to know about it?

I have looked around quite a bit. I looked around quite a bit before I ever posted what is, after all, a trivia question in the first place; and I have looked around quite a bit more since then. I have not found a single identifiable living person who learned or is learning Cornish as her or his first language.

Not one.

So, again:

If you know of any identifiable living person who learned or is learning Cornish as her or his first language, please bring that knowledge forward.

[Andrew D]

And again, I am entirely open to such evidence. As I posted months ago:

Of course, if there are people who are learning Cornish as a first language, then Cornish has at least arguably been resurrected. ... As always, relevant evidence can and quite properly should change anyone's conclusions. I am open to any such evidence as might be adduced, but as long as the evidence remains that people learn Cornish only as a second (third, fourth, whatever) language, the conclusion which that evidence conduces is that Cornish has not been resurrected.

And again, I have nothing against Cornish. On the contrary, as I posted even more months ago:

I hope that it someday will be resurrected, and I applaud the efforts of those who are trying to make that happen. But that day has not yet arrived.

Why is this even controversial?

[Sean]

Because you are making it so.

Let's face it, I think that Gob is in a slightly better position to know about life in Cornwall than you are. It's your problem that you refuse to accept that Andrew, not his.

[Sean]

I should also point out that you decided to ignore the part in the linked article which clearly stated that Cornish is being taught as a first language even though Hen kindly quoted it for you.

There are none so blind...