The Ten Cannots

[Jarlaxle]

Trolls, killing discourse one post at a time.
yrs,
rubato

The irony here is so thick you could cut it with a chainsaw.

[Lord Jim]

Heavens to Murgatroid, did he actually say that?

[dgs49]

Like it or not, these 10 "cannots" are still being quoted almost 100 years after they were first published.

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. (Except when economic uncertainty reduces spending below normal levels and deepens a recession). The wisdom of the original statement is unimpeachable. Lasting prosperity never results from wasteful spending. Which is a lesson that the current Administration blindly refuses to learn.

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. (Except when the strong got that way by changing the laws to make the weak weaker and the poor, poorer). While it can be a matter of some speculation what is referred to by the "strong," rubato's infantile assumption that everyone who is "strong" got that way through some sort of misdeed is nothing more than a sign of his own weakness and inferiority.

You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.(Except when "big men" are abusing their greater power by exploiting "little men". Then it is essential.) Again, rubato presumes that "big men" is a synonym for "evil men." Incredibly immature. Bill Gates obviously got rich by exploiting all those thousands of tech weenies that he's been supporting for the past 40 years.

You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.(Actually, you have to. The 8-hour work day. OSHA. minimum wage. unions. all helped working people by imposing limits on what employers could do). Adults understand that the ideal is cooperation between workers and employers that results in "lifting" of both; rubato cannot conceive of such a development, in spite of the fact that successful companies that have achieved exactly that mutual benefit are all around us - and no UNIONS need have played any part in it.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. (You cannot help the poor w/o limiting the ability of the rich to take everything, like the 1% who got 93% of all additional income in 2010). Again,in rubato's world, nobody ever achieves wealth except by exploiting someone. Nobody earns their wealth through hard work, taking chances, or making intelligent choices. It's all either luck or exploitation. If you are a superannuated adolescent, like rubato.

You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money. (Except in a time of crisis. To pay for infrastructure improvements. To pay for education and health care). Rubato, like most libs, likes the borrowing part of the transaction, but is blind to the payback part - favoring policies that increase the debt to a level at which it can never be paid back, and the inevitable debt burden will hamstring future generations as far as the eye can see.

You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. (you cannot further the brotherhood of man by enacting laws with rape the poor and enrich the wealthy and then whining that when someone points this out it is 'class hatred' while the ongoing economic rape is not). The wisdom of the original statement is self-evident, and apropos as hell in this election year. The very expression, "...laws with (sic) rape the poor..." smells of CPUSA claptrap of a generation ago. Any sane observer can see that the national government has thrown more money and assistance to "the poor" since the advent of the Great Society than ever could have been conceived before, and yet poverty abounds due to a lack of a work ethic and horrible lifestyle choices in the groups most targeted by the government aid.

You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn. (Except in a time of crisis. To pay for infrastructure improvements. To pay for education and health care). Again, rubato misses the point of the original statement. It is about keeping out of trouble. Spending more than you earn is a SHORT TERM strategy which will inevitably generate more "trouble" than you originally had - particularly when you have no strategy whatsoever to end the "temporary" spending.

You cannot build character and courage by destroying men’s initiative and independence. (You cannot destroy the initiative of the bottom 40% of the population by reducing their incomes and and making them live 1 paycheck from homelessness and then whine that someone making $1,000,000 with be 'discouraged' if he pays $10,000 more in taxes). Who, exactly, is reducing anyone's income? Does making the bottom 40% (50%, actually) immune from paying any federal income tax count for anything? Apparently not to rubato.

And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves. (You can help the rich by borrowing $200B a year from everyone else as the Republican party proved in 2001-2008; but it leads to 8 years of lower incomes for 80% of the population followed by catastrophic economic collapse). Rubato takes this occasion to repeat his mantra of "Bush deficits: bad - Obama deficits: Bush's fault." Not surprisingly, it has nothing to do with the original statement, which has proven itself true and valid by the horrific increase in government dependency over the past 60 years..

Maybe I should be more precise in my rhetorical questions. Has anybody noticed that rubato is a delusional, illogical, intellectually and emotionally retarded Twit?

[Jarlaxle]

Heavens to Murgatroid, did he actually say that?

Yes.

Who the hell is "Murgatroid", anyway?!

[Lord Jim]

Who the hell is "Murgatroid", anyway?!

I guess you're too young to remember Snaglepuss, Jarl:

[dales]

Weird LSD flashback.

eta: sorry for derailing the thread, it's that image, that's all.

[Grim Reaper]

Like it or not, these 10 "cannots" are still being quoted almost 100 years after they were first published.

Meaningless argument.

Just because something is still being quoted doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The wisdom of the original statement is unimpeachable. Lasting prosperity never results from wasteful spending. Which is a lesson that the current Administration blindly refuses to learn.

Ah, you mean the previous administration too, right? Because you seem to not understand that the Republicans are just as guilty of wasteful spending too.

While it can be a matter of some speculation what is referred to by the "strong," rubato's infantile assumption that everyone who is "strong" got that way through some sort of misdeed is nothing more than a sign of his own weakness and inferiority.

The strong have spent millions bribing the government making sure they can stay strong.

Again, rubato presumes that "big men" is a synonym for "evil men." Incredibly immature. Bill Gates obviously got rich by exploiting all those thousands of tech weenies that he's been supporting for the past 40 years.

Good job pointing to a single individual. Such a compelling anecdote must be the norm. No. Wait. That's not how reality works. Try again.

Adults understand that the ideal is cooperation between workers and employers that results in "lifting" of both; rubato cannot conceive of such a development, in spite of the fact that successful companies that have achieved exactly that mutual benefit are all around us - and no UNIONS need have played any part in it.

Then explain why countries with higher minimum wages have better standards of living. And your idiotic anti-union statement shows just how little you understand history.

Again,in rubato's world, nobody ever achieves wealth except by exploiting someone. Nobody earns their wealth through hard work, taking chances, or making intelligent choices. It's all either luck or exploitation. If you are a superannuated adolescent, like rubato.

Just more strawman nonsense. Nothing rational to respond to here.

Rubato, like most libs, likes the borrowing part of the transaction, but is blind to the payback part - favoring policies that increase the debt to a level at which it can never be paid back, and the inevitable debt burden will hamstring future generations as far as the eye can see.

Oh, hey, more strawman nonsense, with a hefty dose of hypocrisy. Especially when Republicans have done a huge part of increasing debt.

The wisdom of the original statement is self-evident, and apropos as hell in this election year. The very expression, "...laws with (sic) rape the poor..." smells of CPUSA claptrap of a generation ago. Any sane observer can see that the national government has thrown more money and assistance to "the poor" since the advent of the Great Society than ever could have been conceived before, and yet poverty abounds due to a lack of a work ethic and horrible lifestyle choices in the groups most targeted by the government aid.

Remember, it's only class hatred if the rich are the target.

Again, rubato misses the point of the original statement. It is about keeping out of trouble. Spending more than you earn is a SHORT TERM strategy which will inevitably generate more "trouble" than you originally had - particularly when you have no strategy whatsoever to end the "temporary" spending.

The Republicans don't have any strategy to end spending either. And they want to reduce income as well, so their plan is to increase the debt.

Who, exactly, is reducing anyone's income? Does making the bottom 40% (50%, actually) immune from paying any federal income tax count for anything? Apparently not to rubato.

The "strong men" that you so adore have been doing so. And being immune to federal income tax does not mean being immune to other taxes.

Rubato takes this occasion to repeat his mantra of "Bush deficits: bad - Obama deficits: Bush's fault." Not surprisingly, it has nothing to do with the original statement, which has proven itself true and valid by the horrific increase in government dependency over the past 60 years..

And of course what people "can and should do for themselves" only really works if they're already rich. The poorer people need help, and part of a civilization should be to help all people instead of just a select few.

[Scooter]

The wisdom of the original statement is unimpeachable. Lasting prosperity never results from wasteful spending. Which is a lesson that the current Administration blindly refuses to learn

The United States enjoyed twenty years of uninterrupted prosperity from 1937 to 1957, due in no small measure to the massive spending on war personnel and material leading up to and during World War II. Spare me the retorts about the necessity of that war; from an economic perspective there could have been no spending that was more wasteful - massive amounts of labour and capital dedicated to nothing but killing potential labour and destroying anything of economic value. And yet its economic effects were overwhelmingly positive.

[rubato]

Most of the deficit is caused by Bush's policies:




While in strictly monetary terms we benefit a lot from the tax cuts on the rich (hey thanks!) we are hurt by the effects of those policies on the world around us. As someone at the bottom edge of the 1% I can say for certain that raising our taxes will have no effect at all on our motivations. As many economists have pointed out our income group is 'saturated' with money so that an additional dollar means almost nothing. When Clinton raised taxes on the top 20% no one was 'demotivated' no one stopped working or worked less. The deficit turned into a stimulus and everyone's income rose.

All we have to to to drive the deficit back down to historic baseline levels is allow the tax cuts on the rich to expire:





yrs,
rubato

[Sean]

Maybe I should be more precise in my rhetorical questions. Has anybody noticed that rubato is a delusional, illogical, intellectually and emotionally retarded Twit?

Yes.

Yes I have.

In this instance however I find my self agreeing with him. His points were logical and well set out. You, on the other hand, have resorted to ad hominem attacks and twisting his words to avoid answering his points. You seem to assume that every single member here will automatically be on your side as Rubato is on the other side.

Now that is the kind of behaviour I would describe as "delusional, illogical, intellectually and emotionally retarded".

[BoSoxGal]

Great post, Sean.

I concur.

[Jarlaxle]

In this instance however I find my self agreeing with (rubato).

In that case, I suggest you get mental help immediately!

*runs*

[Sean]

Whilst I acknowledge the smiley Jarl it is a serious point that I make. There are those that will mock and ridicule every post written by Rubato simply because it is written by Rubato. I like to think of myself as slightly more mature than that.

If he acts like a dick I'll be the first to let him know it. If he posts something with which I agree I will acknowledge it.

I don't particularly like him (and I get the vague idea that the feeling is mutual) but if I were to let that opinion cloud every post he makes then I would be doing both him and myself a great disservice.

[Lord Jim]

Well since Sean commented on it, (who I don't find to generally be suffering from Rubato Blindness Syndrome) I opened his post...

Sorry, just more of the same same tedious, over simplified, context free knee jerk drivel that proves absolutely nothing; just the sort of thing that led me to put him on ignore in the first place, (and a gratuitous boorish "hey I'm rich" comment to boot....a particularly vulgar remark coming from that toad, given the fact that as everyone here knows, the only reason rube could qualify as "rich" is because of his wife's income)

I'm sorry Sean I completely missed his "great points"...

As usual, he provides absolutely no thoughtful analysis, (probably a good thing since he's proven repeatedly that he's not capable of it) all he does is regurgitate a couple of charts that prove nothing other than the fact that decisions have consequences.

As is his usual shill, brain-dead, simple-minded habit, he just seeks to blame everything on Bush and his hated "Repugnicans"; of course he doesn't even address the fact that in many cases the policies mentioned in his junior high school chart, (that I'd want to fact check anyway; it's all built on assumptions) have been followed and expanded by Obama...(to name just one way in which his sophomoric charts are misleading; I won't bother going into a more in depth analysis...been there, done that; not worth my time)

Something like that wouldn't fit his world view...

Look, I spent years trying to engage this tiny-mind clown on the validity of the propaganda points he tried to make over, and over, and over....

It was a complete waste of time because the rubester demonstrated conclusively that he had no interest in, or mental capacity for, higher order in-depth discussion... just not in his wheel house...

You think he's making good points because you happen to agree with him; but if you look at it objectively it's just more of the same sophomoric bromides, that rube has been regurgitating from other sources for more than a decade...

I have many, many disagreements with Dave, and I frequently find him annoying when he mischaracterizes my positions, but in terms of native intelligence expressed through his writing skill, the man runs laps around rubato....rube couldn't lace up Dave's tennis shoes....Dave contributes more well written original content in one post (even if it's sometimes outrageous) than rube has in 12 years.

Rube is a provincial, liberal bourgeois dilettante, who's only purposes for coming here are to vomit up over and over again the same DNC talking points (quoting endlessly from second-rate hacks like DeLong and Krugman) and to insult people.

That's it; sum total of "rube's "contributions" ....

Intellectually mediocre and ill mannered; what's not to like?

As I've pointed out before, rube is essentially a liberal version of Captain Ray, (except for the fact of course that Captain Ray was nowhere near as rude as rube) he just regurgitates the same crap that others have fed him because he lacks the mental firepower to engage in critical original thought. End of story.

ETA

The list quoted in the OP of this thread is an excellent example from the Conservative perspective of the kind of ultra simplistic intellectual finger painting crap that rube posts here from the Liberal perspective, day in and day out....

[Joe Guy]

Dang! Until LJ's post I was going to suggest a big Group Hug...

[Lord Jim]

Every party needs a pooper Joe....

[Crackpot]

so you're saying you're an asshole?

[Lord Jim]

Never denied it CP.....

(In this case I was an asshole doing some truthing about a dumb fuck)

[Joe Guy]

Like it or not, these 10 "cannots" are still being quoted almost 100 years after they were first published.

I agree.

I don't want to respond to all of your thoughts, dgs. Instead I chose to respond to one, which is a statement you made that pretty much defines your thought process, in my opinion.

Any sane observer can see that the national government has thrown more money and assistance to "the poor" since the advent of the Great Society than ever could have been conceived before, and yet poverty abounds due to a lack of a work ethic and horrible lifestyle choices in the groups most targeted by the government aid.

Who else would you expect 'the government aid' to target?

Unless perhaps you believe our government gives too much to the poor and not enough to the rich.

[Lord Jim]

Unless perhaps you believe our government gives too much to the poor and not enough to the rich.

I've been arguing this for years...

Since what you subsidize you get more of, and what you tax you get less of, we should subsidize rich people and tax the hell out of poor people....

That way, we'll have more rich people and fewer poor people....