Neighborhood Crime Watch

[Scooter]

Yes, one wonders why that wasn't more widely reported. Obviously that leftist, n----r loving mainstream media at work.

[Gob]

Listening to the tape leaves little doubt that Zimmerman was itching for confrontation.

[dgs49]

I don't know what tape you listened to, but the one that was linked was nothing more than a Neighborhood Crime Watch guy making the kinds of observations that the people in the neighborhood (and the police) would want him to make. I heard nothing even resembling "fucking coons," and no indication that he was looking for any sort of a confrontation. He was trying to give the police a clear indication of where he saw the kid and where he (Zimmerman) was going to be when the police arrived.

What none of you is willing to acknowledge is that an unfamiliar kid wandering the streets in the middle of the night ought to be willing to respond to a simple question civilly. On what basis are we telling Black youths that if anyone asks you what you are doing, that is grounds to fight or attack the other person? You have a right to be anywhere you want to be, but in a gated community at night, you have to expect the possibility of being challenged, and to respond in a peaceful manner.

Unless you are black. Then all bets are off.

[Grim Reaper]

I heard nothing even resembling "fucking coons,"

You should probably schedule an appointment to get your hearing checked.

What none of you is willing to acknowledge is that an unfamiliar kid wandering the streets in the middle of the night ought to be willing to respond to a simple question civilly.

What you seem unwilling to consider is that Mr. Zimmerman was overstepping his bounds. If he had stopped following when the 911 operator had told him to, none of this would have happened.

And "civilly" never entered the picture after being followed for several minutes by some stranger before being yelled at.

Unless you are black. Then all bets are off.

Take your racist attitude and stuff it back in the 19th century where it belongs.

[Scooter]

What they were listening to was the 911 tape where he unmistakenly says "fucking coons" when describing the situation to the dispatcher.

What none of you is willing to acknowledge is that an unfamiliar kid wandering the streets in the middle of the night ought to be willing to respond to a simple question civilly.

Unfamiliar to whom? Who the fuck was George Zimmerman that Martin had any responsiblity to submit to his interrogation? Perhaps you believe you have some responsibility to submit to questioning by complete strangers who accost you on a public street, but most people do not.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I heard nothing even resembling "fucking coons,"

You should probably schedule an appointment to get your hearing checked.

I suspect that Mr Zimmerman was in the wrong - but don't know that for a fact.

However, I've listened to that linked 911 call over and over. They say the offensive words appear between 2:20 and 2:25 but I heard no such thing (and my hearing is very very good). Has the recording been altered?

I also think it's way beyond reality to say that his words were those of a man itching for a fight (or whatever it was). He seems remarkably calm, factual and what a pity he didn't listen to the 911 operator saying "We don't need you to do that" when he said "yes" that he was following the young man.

A person going about their lawful business is not required to answer questions from random strangers who accost them in the night. I too would run like hell, if possible and if not, just shit myself and fall over crying on the floor. Or tell them a joke - it might work

Whatever - it's just not right that a young man lies dead

Meade

[dgs49]

When I was a young man, I and my friends often rode around different neighborhoods in our cars at night, looking for something to do (often looking for girls). We were regularly stopped by police and asked what we were doing. We told them. Usually we were told to "Get lost," or "Go someplace else," or "Go home."

What would it have taken for that kid to simply say that he was visiting his father's fiance's house?

Meade, with all due respect, in such a situation I think we ARE required to give a civil response, and not use a simple question as a pretext for starting a fight - which is clearly what happened here.

The local police were supportive of the idea of having a Local Crime Watch, and Zimmerman was doing exactly what he was expected to do. The police never "told" him to stop following the stranger; he was told that he didn't have to do that - presumably because the police would be there presently.

Whether Z went back to his car and was attacked from behind, as he claims, or he pursued the kid and harrassed him, we may never know. But there was nothing unreasonable about Zimmerman being there, doing what he did, and asking the kid what he was up to. There was NO REASON WHATSOEVER for a violent response - if that is what actually happened.

It appears that there is enough evidence around to ascertain pretty much what happened that night, between the phone recordings and witnesses, and the testimony of Zimmerman - which can be examined with some reasonable skepticism. I again predict that when the dust settles, Zimmerman will be completely exonerated. Just my guess.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Meade, with all due respect, in such a situation I think we ARE required to give a civil response, and not use a simple question as a pretext for starting a fight - which is clearly what happened here.

dgs, I see a world of difference between the police asking me that question and some random dude with no "right" whatsoever to expect an answer. In the day, I've been grabbed around the neck by cops and dragged a ways down the street while they chatted and then dropped with a cheerful "Goodnight son". Stopped and questioned time without number (well, we got drunk every Friday and most days in between). Not a problem.

With respect also, we cannot at this stage say what "clearly" happened. We do not know that a "simple question" was used as a pretext to start a fight. You are (it seems) assuming that the young man was seeking a pretext - "hey what are you doing here?" and a hand on my shoulder (if there was one) would be much more than a pretext - it would be a cause, a reason.

But I do disagree with your central point - I am not required to give any response at all to some fool who stops me on the street and starts poking his nose in my life.

I rather think that your conclusion - that Zimmerman will be "exonerated" - is exactly what most people expect will happen, regardless of how they see the matter - not based on the facts of the case but on (at best) a lack of evidence and (at worst) a failure to apply the law equally and justly

Meade

[Scooter]

We were regularly stopped by police and asked what we were doing.

Except that Mr. Zimmerman was not with the police, or in any way authorized by the police to wander around the public streets accosting strangers and demanding that they submit to questioning.

What would it have taken for that kid to simply say that he was visiting his father's fiance's house?

What would it have taken for Mr. Zimmerman to mind his own fucking business or, if he really thought something was up, to leave it to the police?

It appears that there is enough evidence around to ascertain pretty much what happened that night, between the phone recordings and witnesses, and the testimony of Zimmerman

Including a 911 call on which Zimmerman can clearly be heard to be saying "fucking coons". Including a police surveillance video on which Zimmerman appears to have suffered none of the injuries he claims.

[Scooter]

And since while watching Megan Duhamel and Eric Radford's amazing performance at this year's figure skating worlds I was reminded of what happened last year...

this is what a broken nose looks like:

[rubato]

"Neighborhood Crime Watch"

Ok, I didn't get it right away. I thought it was like birdwatching. People go out with field guides and stalk neighborhood criminals with high-powered cameras trying to build up their 'life lists'. "Oh honey I got 2 Salvadoran extortionists working over a dry cleaner! Now I have a complete list of Central American felons!"

I think they need to get rid of "watch" and replace it with something which suggests a more active verb.


How about "Neighborhood Crime, Team Member". That's better.

yrs,
rubato

[dales]

http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/03/abc-ne ... rtin-case/

ABC News doctors Zimmerman video to peddle false story in Trayvon Martin case

Written By: Bob - Mar• 29•12


The Daily Caller has investigated the ABC News claim that police closed circuit television of George Zimmerman being brought to the Sanford, FL police station shows no sign of injury, in what appears to be an intentional effort by the network to cast doubt on Zimmerman’s accounting of events. Zimmerman claims he was forced to shoot high school football player Trayvon Martin after Martin knocked him down and began slamming his head into the ground.

ABC News blatantly lied about what the video showed.


“A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman,” ABC News reporter Matt Gutman wrote, noting that Zimmerman told police “he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground.”

ABC News reported that Zimmerman appears uninjured in the video. But a still image from the video indicates what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long.

In fact, not one but both camera views showed that Zimmerman has a laceration several inches long on the back of his head. Any blood had been cleaned up by the Fire Dept assets that had treated Zimmerman at the scene. Bruising would not have shown on the low-resolution video.

More disgusting is the obvious fact that ABC News used a strategically placed chyron (graphic) to cover up the back of Zimmerman’s head for their broadcast, covering up the video evidence that would have disproven their story. View the video at the Daily Caller, and you’ll note that they did not even need a chyron, as there was no need to transmit any additional visual data to explain the story. The only logical reason the chyron exists is to cover-up Zimmerman’s wounds.

ABC News doctored the video to sell a false narrative, in a dishonest attempt to brand a man a murderer. I’d be very interested to know if Zimmerman can pursue legal action against ABC for constructing this false narrative.

[Scooter]

The video was doctored to conceal the alleged laceration, but a still image from the doctored video clearly shows the alleged laceration? If the video conceals the laceration, then any still taken from the video would also conceal it.

More smoke being blown up our asses.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Scooter, whatever the rights or wrongs, the showing of the video (not the video itself) on TV did cover his head with the ABC log almost throughout. The video taken by the police camera obviously didn't have an ABC News banner stuck across it. A still photo issued by the police from their actual video would also not have the ABC logo.

The suggestion made in the article wsas not that the video itself was doctored but that ABC purposely placed their own logo over the man's head to obscure it. Probably just general dunderhead stuff on their part and not a conspiracy.

As the man moves toward the upper left corner of the screen - to the door into the actual police offices - his head emerges from the giant ABC and, yes, there could be some damage to the back of his head - it's not possible to tell - it could be the way his hair looked, or a shadow. And no, I have listened and listened and there are no words at all that could be construed as f.c. as alleged.

I asked if the video that IS available from ABC was actually changed by them so they could show it on public TV with such offensive words - again, this would be dunderhead and not conspiracy. But the video linked on this page does not contain those words or anything like them.

Meade

[rubato]

The picture shows a dark mark on his head. Calling it a 'laceration' is adding information not in the evidence.

Further, scalp wounds bleed profusely, even minor ones. A "laceration" several inches long is a major cut.

The logo was put there not to cover something up but because the producer didn't think there was anything to show. And so far his/her judgement appears to be correct.

yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

THey bleed profusely initially but they clot rather quick (I know I've had a few) it is possible he was cleaned up.

[dgs49]

One of the entertaining aspects of the "Judge Judy" television program is that Judge Judy is able to hear totally-conflicting descriptions of the same events and draw conclusions based on logic and her own experience of hearing such conflicts over many, many years. She blatantly tells people when their stories are not believable, and usually tells them why they are not believable. She may get some things wrong because things that actually happen are not always believable in retrospect, but usually her conclusions are spot on.

The African-American Narrative of this case - created because Martin is not alive to speak for himself - is that Mr Z accosted him for the single reason that he was a YBM wearing a hoodie, then shot him in cold blood. The word "murder" is ubiquitous. The claim is that White Man can kill a "nigger" with impunity.

To believe this narrative, one must conclude that Mr. Z, a respected, law-abiding, trusted member of the community with no history of violence or racial animosity (indeed, the contrary seems to be the case) decided one day to commit an unprovoked act of homicide - after having called the local police to ask that they come to investigate.

One must believe that he lied about being attacked, that he must have faked any apparent injuries (as well as the condition of his clothing), and that the police were too stupid to see through his lies. Or maybe they approved of his killing the YBM and decided to go along with his story since the end result was a net positive for the World.

Hmmm.

One must also conclude that Martin, a YBM from Miami with a spotted - though not apparently violent - behavioral history, behaved properly when asked to identify himself and was killed in an unprovoked attack.

Judge Judy would have no problem drawing a rational conclusion, but so many in the public dialog fail to do so.

Curious.

[Lord Jim]

You would think that with all the stuff that has either leaked out or been openly released in this case, that if the cops had called in an EMT to treat Zimmerman, that this would have come out by this time....

Hell, the way this thing has gone, I'd have expected the EMT who treated him to have shown up on The Today Show by now...

[Scooter]

And the notion that an EMT would have seen Zimmerman with an apparently broken nose and would not have told police that they needed to bring him to a hospital for treatment FIRST, and the police station afterwards, is another one of those inconvenient inconsistencies that tear shreds right through the fairy tale Zimmerman's apologists have been attempting to weave.

And I don't know what to make of this

Mr. Z, a respected, law-abiding, trusted member of the community with no history of violence or racial animosity

because it is a matter of public record that Zimmerman was arrested a few years ago for resisting arrest and battery of a police officer, and has a conviction relating to same in his record. Where do you imagine the mugshot that has been circulating came from?

Since we know that Dave would NEVER lie, and since we know that Dave is not stupid enough to have missed this detail, one can only surmise that his exuberance to clear Zimmerman of any blame in this murder (damn, there's that word again) is a result of some subconscious blocking out of anything that does not support that objective.

[Sue U]

because it is a matter of public record that Zimmerman was arrested a few years ago for resisting arrest and battery of a police officer, and has a conviction relating to same in his record. Where do you imagine the mugshot that has been circulating came from?

Maybe it was from the domestic violence case and restraning order his ex-fiancee had filed against him?

But I guess that's just more of his "no history of violence."

ETA:

Martin, a YBM from Miami with a spotted - though not apparently violent - behavioral history,

Yeah, a real "troubled teen." He got caught with an empty baggie in his bookbag that had supposed "marijuana residue" and was among a group of kids who wrote "WTF" on a locker with a marker. His "spotted behavioral history" makes my high school years look like a Bonnie & Clyde crime spree. But of course, he's -- y'know -- "urban."