Alice, that did take some courage to post. My heart also goes out to you and your children and my admiration for you all battling through together - love conquers all but that doesn't mean pain is absent. I too would feel morally obligated to reimburse my family for their losses but I'd have two thoughts about that - double my usual allotment. And I'm very sorry if this sounds like a sermon - I don't know the answers any better than you or anyone else
First, I've met several ladies who have complained that their families have analysed their husbands schemes as hairbrained and refused to even help with rent money, let alone investing which always carries risk. When families do choose to invest, it is they who have chosen - not the daughter. The lady feels "responsible" for she introduced the loser to the family - but really that's a burden she should not have to carry beyond realistic bounds. Yes - that was the intro. But no - presumably you didn't force the parental units etc to close their eyes to the risk factor of investment. The one who fooled them was the one who fooled you too - all victims. They 'chose' a lousy man as well you know! Your family loves you, as you of course know better than I, and they (I would think) recognise the responsibility was at the very least equally theirs - and at best, not your fault at all. So that's the first thought.
Second, and you probably are on this one already, your family both admires and is made a little uncomfortable by your struggles to repay them. As a parent, I'd be feeling that my wrong decision to back a loser not only caused pain when it went wrong but is continuing to cause you pain now - I'd prefer to be trying to help my daughter more than I perhaps should. (So my wife tells me anyway). But if she was intent on "repaying" (as if she had benefitted from it, which she really didn't) well then I would accept that desire gracefully but I would set up a repayment schedule - it would be as little and as infrequent as possible. Something utterly manageable but morally fulfilling. And I'd tell her that I'll probably be dead before she ever gets halfway through but that's OK - because while I'm alive she will be repaying me over and above any perceived "debt" by the love and care she gives to my grandchildren.
I suspect but of course don't know that your family feels pretty much along those lines one way or another. As a parent yourself you know that you give your children all that you can (consistent with good parenting!) and when they grow up you don't expect repayment - other than to see them doing well in their lives and raising their own families in the same spirit of love.
Anyway, sorry to bang on and if I'm off-base in any of this please let it go by.
Regards
Meade
Karmatic Konverter
-
MajGenl.Meade
- Posts: 21515
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
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Re: Karmatic Konverter
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Exactly: for those paying attention to history; my financial situation is not just the result of the recession, but because of a vindictive/abusive Ex.
That I fought against that influence AND trying times that have sunk many an other, and yet against all odds I remain independent; keeping my house and job, is something significant to be proud of. This: I know, and I am.
That I can maintain my sense of humor, through it all: classic.
Judgers/Haters: Deal with it!
That I fought against that influence AND trying times that have sunk many an other, and yet against all odds I remain independent; keeping my house and job, is something significant to be proud of. This: I know, and I am.
That I can maintain my sense of humor, through it all: classic.
Judgers/Haters: Deal with it!
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Thanks for your comments and hugs bigskyga. Much appreciated 
I found at the time the action of bankruptcy to be so demeaning, denigrating, soul-destroying and all other similar descriptions. I was going through so much else, and just felt like it was the last part of 'me' that was left to be broken. I'd always put great value and pride in my excellent credit rating. It was the one thing I thought that no-one but me could 'touch', and then it was ripped from under me. Even family were querying how I could not know some of the things he was getting up to, and so on top of everything else it makes you feel like an idiot, and you feel that you have to be constantly trying to justify and explain . He was very good at hiding stuff away, very sneaky, and also very controlling and bullying. I can explain and explain, and still find it hard to understand myself.
Public attitude toward bankruptcy is that you are an incapable failure as a citizen. For example, apparently I can no longer be called up for jury duty because of it and there are other such stigmas because I am so unworthy now - even employment and insurance can be affected. It used to be very hurtful, at a time when emotionally I was least able to handle it, to be constantly treated like shoe scrapings.
Mostly I'm okay with it nowadays - I say that I had my own personal global financial crisis in my own time, and the world followed after me; by the time the rest of the world crashed I had nothing left anyway, so it didn't affect me!!
It's just sometimes something is said - like in this thread - and maybe at the time I'm feeling a bit tired and sensitive, that it sort of hits me like an unexpected slap in the face now and then to remind me I was such an idiot and essentially will remain stigmatised for life as a result.
>>
Gob, thank you also for your kind thoughts here on the thread and by PM.
I don't think my battles are worthy of respect because I was the idiot who stayed with such a horrible person, and put my kids through all that they went through. I've looked back a thousand times and mentally kicked myself so often over the situation I ended up in. I made some poor judgements that I should have known not to make, and did things I should have known to do differently at the time. Hindsight is a convenient excuse to use now, but it shouldn't have needed hindsight because it should have been obvious to someone who is supposed to have reasonable intelligence .
The ones deserving of respect are my kids who turned out to be such good young men, and who stayed positive in their attitudes to life and ensured that I maintained a positivity as well. They're all very caring, compassionate young men who treat their girlfriends well and have some good goals and positive future life ideas. They are good despite their early life mishaps - they haven't wallowed in self-pity and let these be excuses. For that I am so very, very proud of them.
[you need a 'heart' smilie!!!
>>
MajGdenlMeade, thank you for your advice and you didn't 'bang on'.
I'm very fortunate in that my family do believe, just as you say, that it was their choice to invest, and that they invested in his business so it is not my debt to repay. But the plain fact is that they would not have considered putting that amount of money in if they hadn't been emotionally clouded by the belief that investing in his business would create benefit for me and the kids. The amount they invested is up in the tens of thousands, and it's too much for me to be able , with any conscience, to just write it off as 'not my problem' .
It is true that I would help my children financially whenever i could, and in the midst of this I have been continuing to do overtime whenever I can and have helped my oldest two with their first cars (cheap ones, but still roadworthy), and helped with my youngest son's overseas trip and many other things. But in each case I 'gave' the money, I didn't 'lend' it. And they understood that at the time and appreciated it as a gift. [And they 'pay back' by being similarly generous in their help if they're in a position to do so - for example, my Army son is buying a new car and when he picks it up, he's going to give, not sell, his old car to the youngest as his 'first car'.]
In the case of my family it was different - they gave the money to the business as a loan - it was always clear that it was supposed to be paid back, and because of the amount there was supposed to be a small interest component to cover the mortgage drawdown or investment withdrawals or whatever that it cost them to lend the money. So it was never a gift. In fact, they would have been left in an awkward situation of feeling obliged to say 'it's okay, don't pay it' to me whether they liked it or not. It wouldn't be fair to take advantage of them any more than they have been. I'll be paying them the amount, plus some interest, but because of how long it will take them to get it back to them, it's still going to have ended up costing them dearly to have lent the money.
So overall, from my perspective, even though it was their choice to pay the money in the first place, I have no choice but to repay them.
>>>>
I found at the time the action of bankruptcy to be so demeaning, denigrating, soul-destroying and all other similar descriptions. I was going through so much else, and just felt like it was the last part of 'me' that was left to be broken. I'd always put great value and pride in my excellent credit rating. It was the one thing I thought that no-one but me could 'touch', and then it was ripped from under me. Even family were querying how I could not know some of the things he was getting up to, and so on top of everything else it makes you feel like an idiot, and you feel that you have to be constantly trying to justify and explain . He was very good at hiding stuff away, very sneaky, and also very controlling and bullying. I can explain and explain, and still find it hard to understand myself.
Public attitude toward bankruptcy is that you are an incapable failure as a citizen. For example, apparently I can no longer be called up for jury duty because of it and there are other such stigmas because I am so unworthy now - even employment and insurance can be affected. It used to be very hurtful, at a time when emotionally I was least able to handle it, to be constantly treated like shoe scrapings.
Mostly I'm okay with it nowadays - I say that I had my own personal global financial crisis in my own time, and the world followed after me; by the time the rest of the world crashed I had nothing left anyway, so it didn't affect me!!
It's just sometimes something is said - like in this thread - and maybe at the time I'm feeling a bit tired and sensitive, that it sort of hits me like an unexpected slap in the face now and then to remind me I was such an idiot and essentially will remain stigmatised for life as a result.
>>
Gob, thank you also for your kind thoughts here on the thread and by PM.
I don't think my battles are worthy of respect because I was the idiot who stayed with such a horrible person, and put my kids through all that they went through. I've looked back a thousand times and mentally kicked myself so often over the situation I ended up in. I made some poor judgements that I should have known not to make, and did things I should have known to do differently at the time. Hindsight is a convenient excuse to use now, but it shouldn't have needed hindsight because it should have been obvious to someone who is supposed to have reasonable intelligence .
The ones deserving of respect are my kids who turned out to be such good young men, and who stayed positive in their attitudes to life and ensured that I maintained a positivity as well. They're all very caring, compassionate young men who treat their girlfriends well and have some good goals and positive future life ideas. They are good despite their early life mishaps - they haven't wallowed in self-pity and let these be excuses. For that I am so very, very proud of them.
[you need a 'heart' smilie!!!>>
MajGdenlMeade, thank you for your advice and you didn't 'bang on'.
I'm very fortunate in that my family do believe, just as you say, that it was their choice to invest, and that they invested in his business so it is not my debt to repay. But the plain fact is that they would not have considered putting that amount of money in if they hadn't been emotionally clouded by the belief that investing in his business would create benefit for me and the kids. The amount they invested is up in the tens of thousands, and it's too much for me to be able , with any conscience, to just write it off as 'not my problem' .
It is true that I would help my children financially whenever i could, and in the midst of this I have been continuing to do overtime whenever I can and have helped my oldest two with their first cars (cheap ones, but still roadworthy), and helped with my youngest son's overseas trip and many other things. But in each case I 'gave' the money, I didn't 'lend' it. And they understood that at the time and appreciated it as a gift. [And they 'pay back' by being similarly generous in their help if they're in a position to do so - for example, my Army son is buying a new car and when he picks it up, he's going to give, not sell, his old car to the youngest as his 'first car'.]
In the case of my family it was different - they gave the money to the business as a loan - it was always clear that it was supposed to be paid back, and because of the amount there was supposed to be a small interest component to cover the mortgage drawdown or investment withdrawals or whatever that it cost them to lend the money. So it was never a gift. In fact, they would have been left in an awkward situation of feeling obliged to say 'it's okay, don't pay it' to me whether they liked it or not. It wouldn't be fair to take advantage of them any more than they have been. I'll be paying them the amount, plus some interest, but because of how long it will take them to get it back to them, it's still going to have ended up costing them dearly to have lent the money.
So overall, from my perspective, even though it was their choice to pay the money in the first place, I have no choice but to repay them.
>>>>
Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop.
Re: Karmatic Konverter
>>
You only know the snippet of my 'trying times' from what I've put here in this thread. It's not really enough to enable you to formulate a true and comprehensive understanding of what my life was like, what the full extent of my dramas were, what my ex was like beforehand , or even what I was like at that time.
Similarly I don't know your full and detailed situation at the time that you fought against the influence of your ex and had your 'own trying times'
You can't just leap from one personal story to another and conclude that you somehow managed to emerge triumphant in a situation that 'sunk' me or anyone else. It's simply not true because our situations are not comparable. Each of our individual situations are just that - individual. And they each had their own specific factors and variables. Your may believe your story illustrates elements of your courage and strength, but it will probably also have its own elements of bad decision making and personal responsibility.
I find it offensive that you trivialise what I went through by saying that it 'sunk' me - I find it hard to believe that anyone who has gone through such an emotionally and financially traumatising time would use such a trivial word for the ordeal.
I also do not believe that I was 'sunk' - that implies a finality that did not happen. "Sunk" is the after event of a torpedo hitting a submarine, or a rock falling to the bottom of the ocean, or the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. It's a one-way downward ending. I had a lot going wrong at that time of my life, but then life started to be not so wrong. I was, and am, far from 'sunk' by my criteria.
At the worst of that time, I kept my job and remained independent - both of which you put forward as criteria for your definition of being 'sunk'. The other criteria, which I did not meet, is that I lost my house. But this event did not 'sink' me - it presented a large problem that I had to overcome, and I managed to do that.
And still on the sore point of you perceiving that I was 'sunk' and you were somehow victorious, which makes it sound like opposing sides in a battleship game: I find it offensive that you somehow perceive that you are 'better' because of what you ended up with. These situations aren't meant to be 'competitions' .
Regardless of what I went through at that time, I have gained my own wisdom from my own experience. In my life today I have a good job, great kids, loving pets, good friends, good and supportive family, a roof over my head, food on the table and all my bills are paid on time every time. My car is regularly maintained and the animals and kids get medical care whenever its required. I have no addictions, my health is gradually improving and I have a happy and positive outlook to life. I have enough to keep me warm in Winter and cool in Summer. I have all my life needs and some of my life wants - enough to be pretty content.
That's why most of the time - except today and I do feel bad for being over sensitive today - I don't really need to make people aware of any of those past issues. They're not really relevant, most of the time, except maybe as an occasional passing comment in some particular context.
My job involves me hearing a lot of sad and traumatic stories, primarily around marriage breakdowns, breakups and the aftermath. If there is anything I have learned, from my job and from life in general, it is that most adult people you meet will have had some sort of hugely significant crisis in their life, most people have had dramas, most have had some sort of significant relationship breakdown at some stage ... for most people it is an event in their life that they move forward from. Most don't keep using it as an excuse to hold them back. The only time you really constantly hear about a person's previous significant life crises is when they are using that past event as their excuse for whatever their current demons are.
I was going somewhere with that but I'm starting to fall asleep while typing.
You can see from the length how tired I am - I ramble more!!! Timster will not be impressed!!!!
I didn't mean to make that thread about 'me' - II'm a bit worn out today and probably shouldn't have gone on the board until I'd had a bit of sleep.
loCAtek, I'm probably still feeling over sensitive because I still haven't got to bed yet so am still operating on that hour or so from last night, so forgive me please if I have misunderstood your comment. Based on my interpretation of it I did find your statement a bit offensive.Exactly: for those paying attention to history; my financial situation is not just the result of the recession, but because of a vindictive/abusive Ex.
That I fought against that influence AND trying times that have sunk many an other, and yet against all odds I remain independent; keeping my house and job, is something significant to be proud of. This: I know, and I am.
That I can maintain my sense of humor, through it all: classic.
Judgers/Haters: Deal with it!.
You only know the snippet of my 'trying times' from what I've put here in this thread. It's not really enough to enable you to formulate a true and comprehensive understanding of what my life was like, what the full extent of my dramas were, what my ex was like beforehand , or even what I was like at that time.
Similarly I don't know your full and detailed situation at the time that you fought against the influence of your ex and had your 'own trying times'
You can't just leap from one personal story to another and conclude that you somehow managed to emerge triumphant in a situation that 'sunk' me or anyone else. It's simply not true because our situations are not comparable. Each of our individual situations are just that - individual. And they each had their own specific factors and variables. Your may believe your story illustrates elements of your courage and strength, but it will probably also have its own elements of bad decision making and personal responsibility.
I find it offensive that you trivialise what I went through by saying that it 'sunk' me - I find it hard to believe that anyone who has gone through such an emotionally and financially traumatising time would use such a trivial word for the ordeal.
I also do not believe that I was 'sunk' - that implies a finality that did not happen. "Sunk" is the after event of a torpedo hitting a submarine, or a rock falling to the bottom of the ocean, or the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. It's a one-way downward ending. I had a lot going wrong at that time of my life, but then life started to be not so wrong. I was, and am, far from 'sunk' by my criteria.
At the worst of that time, I kept my job and remained independent - both of which you put forward as criteria for your definition of being 'sunk'. The other criteria, which I did not meet, is that I lost my house. But this event did not 'sink' me - it presented a large problem that I had to overcome, and I managed to do that.
And still on the sore point of you perceiving that I was 'sunk' and you were somehow victorious, which makes it sound like opposing sides in a battleship game: I find it offensive that you somehow perceive that you are 'better' because of what you ended up with. These situations aren't meant to be 'competitions' .
Regardless of what I went through at that time, I have gained my own wisdom from my own experience. In my life today I have a good job, great kids, loving pets, good friends, good and supportive family, a roof over my head, food on the table and all my bills are paid on time every time. My car is regularly maintained and the animals and kids get medical care whenever its required. I have no addictions, my health is gradually improving and I have a happy and positive outlook to life. I have enough to keep me warm in Winter and cool in Summer. I have all my life needs and some of my life wants - enough to be pretty content.
That's why most of the time - except today and I do feel bad for being over sensitive today - I don't really need to make people aware of any of those past issues. They're not really relevant, most of the time, except maybe as an occasional passing comment in some particular context.
My job involves me hearing a lot of sad and traumatic stories, primarily around marriage breakdowns, breakups and the aftermath. If there is anything I have learned, from my job and from life in general, it is that most adult people you meet will have had some sort of hugely significant crisis in their life, most people have had dramas, most have had some sort of significant relationship breakdown at some stage ... for most people it is an event in their life that they move forward from. Most don't keep using it as an excuse to hold them back. The only time you really constantly hear about a person's previous significant life crises is when they are using that past event as their excuse for whatever their current demons are.
I was going somewhere with that but I'm starting to fall asleep while typing.
You can see from the length how tired I am - I ramble more!!! Timster will not be impressed!!!!
I didn't mean to make that thread about 'me' - II'm a bit worn out today and probably shouldn't have gone on the board until I'd had a bit of sleep.
Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop.
Re: Karmatic Konverter
No worries Alice, maybe the last cartoon was a bit much ...but it was aimed at the haters, and not the fellow empowered suvivors like ourselves.
Speaking of stealing; Keeping the house is quite an achievement for me, since my Ex managed to corrupt my lawyer, and got away with ten years of my income as a full-time welder. All of it- and my life's savings from an active duty tour in the navy: POOF! Gone.
Since he couldn't verbally and physically abuse me anymore because of the restraining order; he tried to ruin me finacially, by stealing all my money and hiding it an IRA, that he managed to make my lawyer ignore. Then he started stalking me ...but, I digress.
This place had been supported with two incomes and his investments; and now it was all on me and my hard work. There have been times, I've had three jobs and freelance work, all going at the same time. So, what possible reason is there for my to feel bad about that?
It's been an adventure, and sometimes a pretty funny one; but that's what my familia always does- work hard and bounce back.
Shoot, you think that's impressive, I should tell you about my hero, My Granpo!
Hmmm, in honor of Cinco de Mayo, I think I will tell that story, brb...
Speaking of stealing; Keeping the house is quite an achievement for me, since my Ex managed to corrupt my lawyer, and got away with ten years of my income as a full-time welder. All of it- and my life's savings from an active duty tour in the navy: POOF! Gone.
Since he couldn't verbally and physically abuse me anymore because of the restraining order; he tried to ruin me finacially, by stealing all my money and hiding it an IRA, that he managed to make my lawyer ignore. Then he started stalking me ...but, I digress.
This place had been supported with two incomes and his investments; and now it was all on me and my hard work. There have been times, I've had three jobs and freelance work, all going at the same time. So, what possible reason is there for my to feel bad about that?
It's been an adventure, and sometimes a pretty funny one; but that's what my familia always does- work hard and bounce back.
Shoot, you think that's impressive, I should tell you about my hero, My Granpo!
Hmmm, in honor of Cinco de Mayo, I think I will tell that story, brb...
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Was he from Puebla?
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Karmatic Konverter
I am not sure most of that was read Alice, but for some people winning and being right are the only things that matter.
I hope you sleep is long and restful tonight.
I hope you sleep is long and restful tonight.
Bah!
Re: Karmatic Konverter
We've had a window on another version of loCA's past from PMS Princess; whether or not it was entirely reliable, I'm quite certain loCA's version is not entirely reliable. Her ex influenced her lawyer to cheat her? If true that would be egregious malpractice, actionable with the State Bar.
I take anything loCA says with a grain of salt, given my on & offboard knowledge of her veracity. I certainly don't believe her condescension toward anybody's financial issues should count for squat when she is openly admitting a practice of theft from the transit system. Seems she should be able to pay her tickets by giving up beer?
I take anything loCA says with a grain of salt, given my on & offboard knowledge of her veracity. I certainly don't believe her condescension toward anybody's financial issues should count for squat when she is openly admitting a practice of theft from the transit system. Seems she should be able to pay her tickets by giving up beer?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
-
MajGenl.Meade
- Posts: 21515
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:51 am
- Location: Groot Brakrivier
- Contact:
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Hi Alice, I think Loca's bull-in-a-china-shop post was not actually saying that you were sunk. She was (I think) saying that her ex junked up her life too - so she's experienced that part of the trauma as well.
The she bombastically and fairly typically declares she got through circumstances that for "many another" were the final straw. Clearly you also have struggled with and overcome those kind of tremendously difficult circumstances - so I don't think she meant that you were included amongst "many another" who were sunk by such trials. I could be wrong.
See she even thought your post was about her and so "no worries". I wonder if she read that you were the one offended and rather than "no worries" she should better say "sorry, I didn't mean you". Oh well.
God bless
Meade
The she bombastically and fairly typically declares she got through circumstances that for "many another" were the final straw. Clearly you also have struggled with and overcome those kind of tremendously difficult circumstances - so I don't think she meant that you were included amongst "many another" who were sunk by such trials. I could be wrong.
See she even thought your post was about her and so "no worries". I wonder if she read that you were the one offended and rather than "no worries" she should better say "sorry, I didn't mean you". Oh well.
God bless
Meade
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Yes, you're quite correct Genr'l Meade, my apologies to Alice and your good self, sir.
Edited since my Ex is reading this.
Edited since my Ex is reading this.
Last edited by loCAtek on Sat May 05, 2012 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Ah, just read what PMS Princess wrote; yeah, that's what he tells everybody: that I provoked the fight that got him arrested. The court didn't believe that either.
I told Gob, my Ex would be stalking here; that could be his new girlfriend, or that could be he, up to one of his tricks.
If she's a she, she can have him; I only wish he'd gotten out of my life much sooner.
I told Gob, my Ex would be stalking here; that could be his new girlfriend, or that could be he, up to one of his tricks.
If she's a she, she can have him; I only wish he'd gotten out of my life much sooner.
Last edited by loCAtek on Sun May 06, 2012 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Karmatic Konverter
If your attorney committed malpractice, you don't have to pay another lawyer to sue him - you can file a complaint with the disciplinary office of the State Bar, as already mentioned. Free of charge. I should think you'd want to do that whether or not any financial benefit came to you from it, to protect other unsuspecting clients from the same fate.
As to the reduction of a felony domestic abuse to a misdemeanor; happens all the time, when a prosecutor determines in his/her discretion that the evidence won't support proof beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors. Prosecutors are pretty good at making those determinations when warranted; most domestic abuse cases are far from clear cut and there is generally a great deal of 'he said, she said' - no matter which gender is claiming to be the primary victim.
As to the reduction of a felony domestic abuse to a misdemeanor; happens all the time, when a prosecutor determines in his/her discretion that the evidence won't support proof beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of jurors. Prosecutors are pretty good at making those determinations when warranted; most domestic abuse cases are far from clear cut and there is generally a great deal of 'he said, she said' - no matter which gender is claiming to be the primary victim.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Is there a time limit on lodging such a complaint BSG?
Perhaps Lo can do it now and get some restitution for the past?
This bad Karmic Konverter thread could be karma itself.
Perhaps Lo can do it now and get some restitution for the past?
This bad Karmic Konverter thread could be karma itself.
Bah!
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Really? Very interesting, it may very well be my karma is changing for the better; it's not a Blue Moon tonight, but it is a Super Moon, and that should count
Supermoon': Large Full Moon Tonight
Supermoon': Large Full Moon Tonight
Re: Karmatic Konverter
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Karmatic Konverter
Thank you so much for trying to clarify. I'll say this one last thing and then won't keep dragging it through. I'm already tremendously annoyed with myself for putting my initial post on in the first place!!MajGenl.Meade wrote:Hi Alice, I think Loca's bull-in-a-china-shop post was not actually saying that you were sunk. She was (I think) saying that her ex junked up her life too - so she's experienced that part of the trauma as well.
The she bombastically and fairly typically declares she got through circumstances that for "many another" were the final straw. Clearly you also have struggled with and overcome those kind of tremendously difficult circumstances - so I don't think she meant that you were included amongst "many another" who were sunk by such trials. I could be wrong.
See she even thought your post was about her and so "no worries". I wonder if she read that you were the one offended and rather than "no worries" she should better say "sorry, I didn't mean you". Oh well.
God bless
Meade
I was trying, obviously not succeeding (!), to say that I found the comments offensive on a general basis, not just in relation to me.
When people go through these life traumas they usually struggle and overcome. I am touched by the kindness of people here, but most, if not all, who post here will have had their own difficulties that also involved struggling through and then moving on with whatever their life has become. Unless they write/talk about them we would not know, and even then, we only get that snippet they choose to share. My particular circumstances may be individual, but the fact I had dramas in my life is not unique to me. Or to loCAtek. or to anyone.
Most people have experienced difficult and traumatic circumstances in their lives; whether they involved events in their childhood, and/or in their relationship, or relationship endings. People watch loved ones dying, experience terrible natural disasters, abuse in various forms or other nastiness, financial dramas that may not be of their own making, etc etc Very few people go through life without having been scarred by the effects of going through life.
Very, very few people are 'sunk' by their trials. Sunk is a word of finality that implies an irretrievable and unfixable ruination of their life, or a despair so great it leads to suicide. At the worst stage of the trauma, of course there are feelings of despair, but most people do find ways - some on their own, some with help from friends, family, counsellors, their religion, etc - to work through the leftovers of their trauma, and begin rebuilding and moving forward in their lives.
And those who move forward are no better or worse than others whether they worked through it on their own, or with help. Independence isn't a badge of honour at a time like this and not always the 'best' during difficult times. The 'right' thing - not the 'better' thing - is to get through with whatever level of help is individually needed or available at the time. But also, it has to be said that those who moved forward are not any 'better' than those who found the circumstances too much, and who really did 'sink' .
I think by speaking in terms I 'fought' 'against all odds' in situations where 'others were sunk' turns it into a comparison of war battles with a competition about who had the biggest sob story, who deserves the medal, or whose medal is biggest. I may have read it with too much sensitivity, but I found that to be a 'biggus dickus' attitude and my perception was that it trivialised the situations of anyone other than the writer.
I believe that we should try to listen, understand and empathise with other people's circumstances, and we may draw on aspects of our own life stories when empathising, but we certainly can't say that our circumstances were just the same and that we would have reacted in 'this' or 'that' way if we were them. And we shouldn't be trying to rub in the faces of others how much better we think we did out of it all. No-one does 'better' - everyone does the best they can in trying circumstances.
It's okay to have a personal sense of accomplishment or fulfilment, or pride, or whatever it is that makes an individual feel good about getting through their own life trauma. But every individual that has had any trauma is equally entitled to feel their own personal accomplishment at being able to move on or forward, or even just surviving,
I don't think it's right for anyone to be trying to make the aftermath of personal suffering about 'winning' or 'losing'.
But on that note, the criteria for 'winning' or 'losing' such a 'competition' would not be as cut and dried as 'who kept the house' or 'who kept their job', or 'who didn't go bankrupt', or who didn't need any help'. That might be simplistic enough for a board game, but it certainly doesn't work as easily in life. I can't say what 'winning' would entail in such a 'competition', but I imagine it would involve a longer term look at the result and quite a great deal of vagueness because it requires parameters unique to each situation - for example, two, three or five, ten years later, how is your life progressing and have you successfully been able to move forward and gain a new contentment . What are the 'leftovers' in your life from your previous experience and how do those 'leftovers' affect your day to day aspects of your current life.
For me, I would feel that at this time in my life I am essentially 'winning' if the term has to be considered at all, but not against anyone else or in comparison to anyone else. Just for me - where I was and where I am. And only relative to my situation now - I'm sure life will throw me a few more curveballs before I pass this mortal coil. And I'll face them, and hope I handle them okay when they happen.
I apologise for turning a response to few sentences into a thesis (!!)
As I've sad, I hear many, many stories in the course of my working environment, and I guess my decision to feel offence was sparked by the general understanding that we're never unique and we're all unique, and all we can do is put one foot in front of the other, be grateful for the things that make us smile, and plod through the things that make us frown - and try not to judge others too harshly as we follow our own journey.
I think we're all 'fellow empowered survivors' - that's just a part of being alive. But the term in the way you used it still implies a 'standard', or a 'winning and losing' attitude.loCAtek wrote:No worries Alice, maybe the last cartoon was a bit much ...but it was aimed at the haters, and not the fellow empowered suvivors like ourselves.
...
But I must admit i did take quite an offence at the cartoon, and it is what probably sparked of my little carry on here.
Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop.
Re: Karmatic Konverter
... and now...
Specifically in relation to the OP (so moving it away from being all 'me me me'!!):
In reading the Op I didn't realise it was intended as a humorous anecdote, and agreed with the sentiments of the workmates who said 'serve you right'.
That's not intended personally - I've already expressed my opinion that if people get caught for such things as speeding or other infractions they should 'cop it sweet', because they were doing wrong.
They have had a campaign in Melbourne (Australia's Melbourne!) for a while that says something along the lines of - those commuters who pay end up having to pay more to cover those who fare evade. It was of course snappier wording, but it's a true sentiment. If you and others didn't find excuses/reasons to fare evade, then other more honest commuters might be able to pay a little less for their tickets because they wouldn't be 'covering' you. And it's of course arrogance to the highest degree for fare evaders to believe that their circumstances are any more drastic than those who honestly pay their way each time.
If we all could get away with having ' good reasons' for not paying a public transport fare then very few people would end up paying and the system would inevitably collapse due to not getting any revenue. And then we'd whinge about not having a reliable public transport service. We as a public transport using population can't have it both ways. So I don't mean this cruelly, but 'karma' would have been more apt if you didn't have your valid ticket the day the inspectors checked, and so ended up having to pay the fine.
And now I'm sitting typing instead of getting stuck into the mountain of things I'm supposed to be doing today.
Thank you all again, for the kind thoughts, and for letting me jump on my soapbox for a little while here. I'll just drag it away now, 'cos I need it for reaching the high cupboards ... you get your own soapboxes
I agreeScooter wrote: ...
I repeat, if people don't expect others to comment on their behaviour, then they shouldn't put it on display. .
Specifically in relation to the OP (so moving it away from being all 'me me me'!!):
In reading the Op I didn't realise it was intended as a humorous anecdote, and agreed with the sentiments of the workmates who said 'serve you right'.
That's not intended personally - I've already expressed my opinion that if people get caught for such things as speeding or other infractions they should 'cop it sweet', because they were doing wrong.
They have had a campaign in Melbourne (Australia's Melbourne!) for a while that says something along the lines of - those commuters who pay end up having to pay more to cover those who fare evade. It was of course snappier wording, but it's a true sentiment. If you and others didn't find excuses/reasons to fare evade, then other more honest commuters might be able to pay a little less for their tickets because they wouldn't be 'covering' you. And it's of course arrogance to the highest degree for fare evaders to believe that their circumstances are any more drastic than those who honestly pay their way each time.
If we all could get away with having ' good reasons' for not paying a public transport fare then very few people would end up paying and the system would inevitably collapse due to not getting any revenue. And then we'd whinge about not having a reliable public transport service. We as a public transport using population can't have it both ways. So I don't mean this cruelly, but 'karma' would have been more apt if you didn't have your valid ticket the day the inspectors checked, and so ended up having to pay the fine.
Thank you, it was!!The Hen wrote:I hope you sleep is long and restful tonight.
And now I'm sitting typing instead of getting stuck into the mountain of things I'm supposed to be doing today.
Thank you all again, for the kind thoughts, and for letting me jump on my soapbox for a little while here. I'll just drag it away now, 'cos I need it for reaching the high cupboards ... you get your own soapboxes
Life is like photography. You use the negative to develop.
Re: Karmatic Konverter
The timelines for filing a malpractice complaint would vary by jurisdiction; loCA could doubtless get some free information from her pal Andrew D on that point - though she could also just Google the State Bar of California and I'm sure the information is all on their website.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Karmatic Konverter
State Bar of California - Filing a Complaint
Filing A Complaint
Complaints Against Attorneys
1-800-843-9053
Complaint Form
You should register a complaint with the State Bar if you believe that your lawyer acted improperly but not just because there is some disagreement between you or you believe he or she did a poor job. For such a disagreement, you should pursue alternative methods of settling attorney-client disputes when available.
All lawyers who practice in California must live up to ethical standards imposed by the California Supreme Court and the state legislature. As an arm of the California Supreme Court, the State Bar investigates and prosecutes complaints against lawyers.
Depending on the seriousness of the offense, a lawyer can be given a warning, put on probation, suspended from practicing law for a period of time or disbarred (prohibited from practicing law in California).
The bar has limited authority to discipline lawyers for such behavior as rudeness or making a single honest mistake. It is limited by law to complaints about unethical behavior as defined in the Rules of Professional Conduct and/or the State Bar Act.
If you believe that your lawyer acted unethically, you should file a complaint. The complaint form should be mailed to the State Bar at the address indicated. Be sure to follow the instructions.
Some things you should know about filing a complaint:
•There is no fee to file a complaint.
•You do not have to be a U.S. citizen to file a complaint.
•When you register a complaint, you should supply photocopies of any papers, such as letters or canceled checks that relate to the problem.
•The State Bar will send you a postcard when your complaint form has been received.
•Your complaint will be read by a State Bar lawyer to determine how the complaint will proceed. The process can take from two to three weeks.
•Your complaint will then be assigned to a staff member to conduct an investigation.
•You will be informed of the status of the investigation by a State Bar representative.
•At the end of the investigation you will be informed in writing if your complaint will proceed to prosecution in the State Bar Court or if it will be closed.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Re: Karmatic Konverter
If it is an actionable complaint, then once the State Bar prosecutes, getting compensation from the attorney's malpractice insurer should be a no brainer.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan