Neighborhood Crime Watch

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rubato
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by rubato »

dgs49 wrote:And the other idiot speaks up.
What percentage of the population has a record for resisting arrest and assault? What percentage has a record for spousal abuse and a restraining order? What percentage of people who are violent even get police records?

How stupid are you? Really? Really?

This moron has self-selected into a relatively small group of people who are more violent than the general population by a wide margin.

Someone who is themselves a wife-beater might need to minimize his record but the 90% + who have no history of violence will disagree.

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Econoline
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Econoline »

What rubato said, with the ad hominem comments (by both rubato and dgs) deleted.
What percentage of the population has a record for resisting arrest and assault? What percentage has a record for spousal abuse and a restraining order? What percentage of people who are violent even get police records?

This moron has self-selected into a relatively small group of people who are more violent than the general population by a wide margin.
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Gob
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Gob »

A Florida neighbourhood watch volunteer who shot an unarmed black teenager had a bloody nose and a cut on his head, according to police reports.

The documents were released to defence lawyers for George Zimmerman, who is accused of second-degree murder over the 26 February killing in Sanford.

The file includes autopsy evidence that traces of a cannabis ingredient were found in Trayvon Martin's system.

Mr Zimmerman, 28, maintains he shot the 17-year-old in self-defence.

He was not arrested for several weeks after the shooting because he invoked Florida's "stand your ground" law, which allows deadly force in the face of a serious threat.

The racially charged case, which sparked nationwide protests, has divided the US.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18111988
Did I just step into lala land?

Was there any doubt that a fight had broken out following Zimmerman chasing and confronting the kid?

What the fuck does "a cannabis ingredient" have to do with anything?

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rubato
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by rubato »

Cannabis can typically be detected for 2 weeks after use. A heavy user might test positive for up to two months after he stops using.

Meaningless.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by BoSoxGal »

Actually, in law enforcement (I'm talking forensic scientists at our crime lab) we go by the standard 30 days, longer by hair test.

Regular users will always test positive unless they flush their kidneys successfully.

What matters is what the levels of each type of cannabis component were present - from that a rough estimate of last intoxication can be suggested, but it's guesswork.

Anyway, MJ isn't at the root of much violent crime except dealing-related. I don't think the finding is very relevant to the fight, but it will be manipulated to make the victim into a punk.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Lord Jim »

That doesn't seem relevant to me either, but it does appear that Zimmerman's claim that he was on the losing end of a beat down at the time he fired the shots was factual:
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Trayvon Martin was shot through the heart at close range. George Zimmerman had a broken nose, bruises and bloody cuts on the back of his head.
More, (and photos):

http://news.yahoo.com/documents-shed-li ... 41368.html

It seems to me that this factor is really going to make proving the case for second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt very difficult...
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by BoSoxGal »

Except he chased Martin and provoked an encounter.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Lord Jim »

Under second-degree murder, the jury must find that a death was caused by a criminal act “demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life,” said Eric Abrahamsen, a criminal defense lawyer in Tallahassee, reading from the state’s standard jury instructions.
That's certainly true, and that would certainly seem to mean that "stand your ground" wouldn't apply, but if this is accurate:
Under second-degree murder, the jury must find that a death was caused by a criminal act “demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life,” said Eric Abrahamsen, a criminal defense lawyer in Tallahassee, reading from the state’s standard jury instructions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/us/zi ... orida.html

They'd have had a much better case for second degree murder if he had fired while Martin was approaching him, rather than when he was getting beat up...

Hell, Zimmerman's lawyer might even be able to argue that the gun went off by accident during the struggle...

(though obviously the fact that two shots were discharged makes that problematic too.)
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RayThom
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THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION

Post by RayThom »

Whereas I lean more towards Zimmerman's guilt I need more information before I'm comfortable with any final judgment. How much information that is presented -- in both quality and reliability -- in a court of law remains to be seen. Undeniably, this incident is literally and figuratively more than a "black and white" issue.

What everyone needs to remember is this trial will most likely be heard in Florida, the same state court system that found Casey Anthony 'not guilty' of filicide. Good, bad, or indifferent -- a jury of twelve will be the "deciders" of Zimmerman's fate. Regardless, he'll be in his own personal hell for years to come whether convicted or not.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by BoSoxGal »

Do you think she murdered Caylee intentionally? I think she killed her accidentally by chloroforming her in lieu of getting a babysitter.
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RayThom
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bsg. "ACCIDENTALLY" WAS ALWAYS A STRETCH

Post by RayThom »

I do, however, hold that she was aware that all her actions against her child were, in fact, criminal. I contended Caylee's death was a negligent homicide (involuntary manslaughter) but the courts thought they had a slam-dunk and charged her in the first degree. BTW -- although surprised by the verdict, I wasn't upset with how the jury ruled. All court proceedings are fully nuanced with a visceral feel that touches everybody -- jury or observers -- differently. They were there, I wasn't. Was justice served? That will be a source of judicial debate for the next century.
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dgs49
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by dgs49 »

It is Zimmerman's story that after first accosting Martin, he lost track of him and went back to his vehicle. When he got there, Martin snuck up behind him and attacked him, throwing him to the ground and pummelling him. While being so attacked, Zimmerman drew his gun and shot Martin.

ALL of the forensic evidence made public since the original incident supports this version: the medical evidence and photos of Zimmerman, the GSW evidence, the condition of the clothing - all of it.

The ONLY reason this case is going forward is to placate the Black community. The chances of a conviction on second degree murder are approximately zero.

And yet we will be subjected to months and months of the various Race Whores shouting their "No Justice, No Peace" nonsense, various lawyers jockeying for position to try to make money off it, and the pundits and talk show hosts mining it for hours and hours of nasty debate.

What a collossal waste of time and energy.

Grim Reaper
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Grim Reaper »

dgs49 wrote:ALL of the forensic evidence made public since the original incident supports this version: the medical evidence and photos of Zimmerman, the GSW evidence, the condition of the clothing - all of it.
The forensic evidence can only support that he was fighting with Mr. Martin before shooting him. It can't support that he lost track of Mr. Martin before being attacked again. Unless he has eyewitness testimony of Mr. Martin running up to him after he returned to his car, he has no evidence that can fully support his version of the events.
dgs49 wrote:What a collossal waste of time and energy.
Right. Because it would be far better to let a possible murderer just walk free rather than inconvenience you with news stories about the trial.

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Gob
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Gob »

This will help! :roll:
Trayvon Martin death: Zimmerman wife on perjury charge


Police mug shot of Shellie Zimmerman, whose husband is accused of shooting unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, after she was arrested on a perjury charge on 12 June Shellie Zimmerman in a police mug shot following her arrest

Shellie Zimmerman, the wife of the man who shot teenager Trayvon Martin in Florida, has been charged with perjury.

She knowingly made false statements about the couple's finances during an April bail hearing, said an order issued by assistant state attorney John Guy.

Her husband, George, was later released on $150,000 (£96,000) bail.

Mr Zimmerman is now back in jail, charged with the second-degree murder of unarmed black teenager Mr Martin.

He claims he shot the 17-year-old in self-defence
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loCAtek
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by loCAtek »


Witnesses in the Twin Lakes development

A witness to the confrontation just prior to the shooting stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911".[119]

After the prosecutors made some discovery information available, the Orlando Sentinel quoted an eye witness statement which said a man had "witnessed a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help." The witness said the black male was throwing punches "MMA [mixed martial arts] style."


...

Screams for help on 911 recordings

The discovery documents include FBI reports stating that analysts were unable to determine whose voice is heard crying out for help in 911 calls, citing poor audio quality and the “extreme emotional state” of the person screaming. [226][227]

According to police reports included in the discovery documents, after listening to audio recordings of the 911 calls, Martin's father, Tracy Martin, told police investigators that it was not Trayvon Martin's voice calling for help.[226] Martin has since told reporters he was uncertain at that time, but that when he heard an enhanced recording on March 16 he was convinced it was his son calling for help.[228] In an interview with prosecutors on March 19, Zimmerman's father identified the screams as George Zimmerman's, stating, "There is no doubt who is yelling for help. It is absolutely my son." [228]

Zimmerman's injuries

The first round of discovery documents included police reports that state Zimmerman "appeared to have a broken and a bloody nose and swelling of his face". According to police reports, Zimmerman was offered three chances to be taken to the hospital, but Zimmerman declined each time.[226] ABC News reported that a medical report compiled by the family physician of George Zimmerman showed that, following the altercation with Martin, Zimmerman was diagnosed with a closed fracture of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek. [229]


...

Martin's autopsy report

The Volusia County medical examiner found that Martin was killed by an injury resulting from a single gunshot fired at "intermediate range," between 1 and 18 inches according to a forensic expert. [222] The autopsy also found that Martin had one small abrasion on his left ring finger below the knuckle. No other injuries were found on Martin's body at the time of his death. [222]


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sometime after 11:21 AM Crime Scene Tech D. Smith photographed his injuries and hands and used a Gunshot Residue Kit to collect GSR. Zimmerman's clothes were taken as evidence after his wife arrived with a change of clothes.[145]
Wiki




I recommend reading the Wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

It appears, Zimmerman's motive was to not let another 'suspect' get away before the police arrived, and not racially motivated.
So far, the evidence of violence is of Martin being physically aggressive to Zimmerman.

dgs49
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by dgs49 »

Aside from over-charging this case, I have wondered what's going on with the money side.

Zimm and his wife are charged with perjury for misrepresenting their financial position during the original bond hearing - not including a substantial sum that had been generated on line as a quasi legal-defense fund.

Is it possible that initially, they considered this money to be, in effect, in trust for their legal defense, then later, when it became necessary to use it just support themselves, they assumed control of it as their own money? At the time of the original bond hearing, they were still unsure about whether that money was "theirs to keep," and they did not include it among their assets.

Pure speculation on my part, but given the DA's and the court's dealings so far, it looks to me like they were just looking for some pretext to keep Zimm in jail. Nice job.

And again, all the evidence that has come out supports Zimm's claim that he was the victim of an unprovoked attack, intended to inflict great bodily harm, for NO REASON OTHER THAN THE BRUTALITY of the attacker.

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Scooter
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Scooter »

The recorded conversations between Zimmerman and his wife while he was jail suggests that they knew exactly what they were doing, else they wouldn't have felt the need to be speaking in code about it.

Misrepresenting your finanicial position at a bail hearing is far from a "pretext". In this case Zimmerman could have afforded to forfeit the bail and flee (if that had been his intent) without it costing him and his wife a thin dime, because they were sitting on a secret windfall that would have more than covered it. Had the judge know about it, there is no question that bail would have been set substantially higher or, if convinced by your interpretation of the "facts", could have ordered that the "defence fund" be set up in a proper court-supervised trust that the Zimmerman's would not have been able to access for any other purpose.

This had nothing to do with the DA. Judges don't like being lied to, and Zimmerman found that out the hard way.
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Image
including a 911 call on which Zimmerman can clearly be heard to be saying "fucking coons".
Between March 19 and March 27, 2012, the NBC Nightly News, NBC's Today show, and NBC's network-owned Miami affiliate WTVJ NBC6 ran segments which misleadingly merged parts of Zimmerman's call. On one version of the recording played by NBC, Zimmerman was heard saying, "This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something... He's got his hand in his waistband, and he's a black male." In another what was played was, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." In the original 9-1-1 recording, Zimmerman said: "This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." The 9-1-1 operator then asked: "OK, and this guy, is he black, white or Hispanic?", and Zimmerman answered, "He looks black." The phrase, "He's got his hand in his waistband, and he's a black male" came several exchanges after that point in the conversation. NBC issued an apology for "an error made in the production process that we deeply regret," but never apologized on the air. A Miami-based NBC News producer lost her job, WTVJ reporter Jeff Burnside was fired, and two other employees were disciplined. Lilia Luciano, who had been the reporter on some broadcasts of both versions of the audio,was also fired.

Including a police surveillance video on which Zimmerman appears to have suffered none of the injuries he claims.
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These three photos originate from a very short period of film when the back of George Zimmerman's head was viewed by a police station surveillance camera minutes after the shooting of Trayvon Martin. The video was released as an ABC News exclusive. The frame at left was reprinted from the video by The Daily Caller as evidence of a possible injury to the back of Zimmerman's head during a struggle.[1] The frame at center was the Daily Caller's enhancement of the image from that article. The frame at right is a professional enhancement done by Forensic Protection, Inc for ABC News
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Scooter
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Scooter »

Am I supposed to be impressed by references to audio and video tapes that have nothing to do with what I was claiming? Sorry to disappoint you.
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Scooter
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Re: Neighborhood Crime Watch

Post by Scooter »

The portion of the 911 tape on which Zimmerman is clearly heard saying "fucking coons" (which has nothing to do with the attempted misdirection posted above):

"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

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