Something For Discussion (A possible rule)

[Lord Jim]

Well, there kind of is a middle ground; that would be suspension.

Some would argue that in this case the suspension didn't work....

Well, yes and no....

It certainly worked for the 30 days it was in affect...

If there was another suspension, it would "work" for another 30 days, and further drive home the point without a permanent ban.

(Let me say that I'm not arguing for another suspension of LoCa at this point; I think we should see what, if any, affect the comments that I and others have made about this latest round of abusive behavior has before that happens.)

Moving beyond this case, to sort of a worst case hypothetical:

Let's say we had another poster who got themselves into such a fix with abusive and disruptive behavior that we had a vote where 80% of the membership voted for their suspension (as happened in this case) and they were suspended for 30 days....

And then let's say that without missing a beat, that person went right back to the trolling that got them suspended, (even worse than what LoCa has done.)

So after a few days, and a couple of warnings, they get another 30 day time out....

And then the pattern repeats and they get another 30 day time out...

And this happens again, and again and again.....

In one sense you could say the suspensions aren't "working"...

But in another sense they are, because they're providing 4 weeks of relief from the behavior with only maybe a week of the behavior in between, which is way better than having the behavior all the time, but it also doesn't ban the person permanently ...

As a practical matter, I would think that after this had happened 3 or 4 times, that most people would find that they were getting so little impact from their disruptions versus the time that they weren't able to disrupt, that either they would decide that they'd prefer to stay here and knock off the behavior, or go find some other place where they could be disruptive without constantly getting suspended for it....

[The Hen]

Granted no one has a right to post on any board, and the "owners" or members or whatever can impose whatever rules they want, but I would not want to remain part of a board which acts to ban a member for expressing views, however inflammatory or odious they are. Now that might change if, e.g., someone attempted to wreck a board by spreading a vrus through it, but I think we all can (and should) be adult enough to ingore stupid or inflammatory statements.

Inflammatory or odious views?

What about continual, constant outright lies, harassment and admitting stalking?

Don't give me some half-arsed statement that you would ignore them. Truth be told, we would probably not see you for an extended period of time again.

Why should posters that have committed no wrong have a smear follow them around continually with only a few days break in between attacks?

Hell, why should we even bother to keep the Board running?

That's the ticket. If people agree there should be no consequences for fucking this place up and over - again and again and again, then Gob and I will return the unspent contributions and close the Board down. You can find Utopia elsewhere.

[Big RR]

Hen--I've clearly stated my position and I stand behind it. I appreciate that others, like you, may not agree and I'm willing to live with that as I trust you are. I am in no way trying to impose my will on you, nor should my statement that I would leave be seen as any more than a statement of fact. This board is a collection of individuals which is kept running by the significant efforts of you, gob, and others; I appreciate it and have said that the Board can run it any way they see fit. If I leave because of that, c'est la vie. I'm not in any way criticizing anyone for their position on the subject of banning/suspension/whatever, merely stating mine. If I am Don Quixote on a doomed quest, then that's just what I am, and I'll tilt at windmills as I see fit.

And FWIW, when I left for an extended time it had nothing to do with any posters personally attacking or annoying me. I've lost my temper with some (I'm only human after all), but no one will drive me away (nor have I ever considered it).

As for your last statement, do what you want, and I will do what I feel I should do; what else can any of us do? This may not be utopia, but does that mean we shouldn't keep trying to make it just that?

[Gob]

The problem being that the good and rational people of this board, are being driven to such extremes due to the behaviour of someone who has forfeited the good will, friendship, tolerance and support of the majority of board users to the degree that even the most forgiving members here are asking her to desist.

I'd see her permanently excluded from our company, and live with the unfortunate consequences of that, rather than have another instance of the sort we have seen with BSG of late.

I admire others principles, but don't like admire idea of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face.

A less drastic action, and how to make it acceptable to the majority is what we are searching for.

[Lord Jim]

This may not be utopia, but does that mean we shouldn't keep trying to make it just that?

Well that may be a bit of a stretch....

At it's best, the succession of forums I have participated in over the...geez, what is it now, 16 years?...the Cafe Darte, the Cyber Soapbox, and now Plan B....

Sort of approximates a good college bull session....(occasionally, I even learn something... )

At it's worst, it approximates high school kid drama....

We've also watched each other age and evolve over the years....and seen each others personal journeys...both the ups and the downs....

When I first started posting at the Cafe Darte, when I wasn't responsible for anyone but myself, I would think nothing of jumping on a plane and heading off for a FtF with some of my fellow Darties...

Now that's certainly not possible...(not that I'm complaining; my life is much richer for having a family and I wouldn't trade it for the world)

Most of us have been interacting with each for a pretty long time, (a decade or more) and in a sense, we have become "family"...

And as with all families, most of us have some family members here that we don't particularly care for; and others who we may become exasperated with on occasion, but for whom we have more forbearance....

A "community" or a "family" ...with all the positives and negatives that entails....

But a "utopia"?

Not bloody likely....

[Andrew D]

After reading your suggestions, I went and found the exchange between LoCA & BSG that I'm sure you are referring to.

Where is that?

[The Hen]

It starts with Lo's first post towards the bottom of page two.

A totally uncalled for interjection ... IMO.

[loCAtek]

...but worth banning?

When, as you said AndrewD, others do far worse, and get no more than a 'tsk tsk'.

The far worse is letting a known violent assailant, post 'vile untruths' and 'off-board exchanges' ...all in good fun, since he/she is a fellow Ozzie [supposedly, my Ex is good at ingratiating himself that way].

Admin is happy to break thier word, that they wouldn't let such stalking occur, in the first place. Posting words is NBD, but when it's known that the stalker can/will physically pose a danger; and they are happy to help... ? In my country, it's called accessory to a crime.

[Joe Guy]

Admin is happy to break thier word, that they wouldn't let such stalking occur, in the first place. Posting words is NBD, but when it's known that the stalker can/will physically pose a danger; and they are happy to help... ? It's called accessory to a crime.

You'll need to explain that one.

First, how would an "admin" prevent stalking "in the first place"?

Second, are you accusing the administrators here of helping someone who will "physically pose a danger" to you?

You appear to have crossed over into the quad-zone.

The quad-zone is a place in which your thoughts make no sense to anyone other than you.

[Scooter]

If you believed whatever was said to be such a threat, they why didn't you see fit to bring it up at the time? Obviously, because whatever was said didn't come anywhere close to the characterization you are now creating for it, and you are only making an issue of it now in order to deflect from your own slander and stalking behaviour.

[loCAtek]

Very well, the administration of this board was notified, prior to its inception, that I had a stalker, and a physically violent one. I was assured, that they had 'my back', as it was; and I didn't have to worry about my Ex, following me here from CSB.

Obviously, I was wrong, and they let PMS Princess and my Ex, continue to stalk me, against their word.

[loCAtek]

I kept it offline; they didn't.

[Gob]

Interesting, the administration was notified before they existed.

[loCAtek]

Um, yea. You/they existed on CSB, and in the RL Real life, precedes Plan B ...your denial is noted.

[Joe Guy]

If you have a stalker or stalkers that are a physical threat to you, there are legal ways to deal with them. Copy & paste those threats and I'm sure that most of us would be glad to help you deal with your stalkers. I know I would.

Criticizing the administrators of this BBS is not going to be an effective way of dealing with stalkers.

[Scooter]

And how could they have promised that your alleged stalkers would not follow you to a place that didn't yet exist? Do you never get tired of tripping yourself up over your own words?

[loCAtek]

I understand that; but I knew Plan B would exist, therefore I asked its Admin to not allow stalking from a specific party.

They refused recently, and instead chose to be accessory to a crime.

[Scooter]

You knew Plan B would exist even before those who created it? And you knew who the admins would be?

You should loan yourself out as a psychic.

[loCAtek]

Ha! I supported the CSB members, who created Plan B; I understand that was a mistake, ThX 4 agreeing with me.

[Scooter]

I guess you hadn't managed to think that far ahead as you made up this fantasy as you went along.