Should everyone have done a 'proper job'?

[Gob]

Should everyone have done a 'proper job'?


By Tom de Castella
BBC News Magazine

The focus on internships is growing in popularity, while fewer young people do Saturday jobs. But should everyone be expected to have done a "proper job" while they're young?

It's a rite of passage that may involve cleaning toilets, sexing chickens or operating the machine that puts jam into a doughnut.

Holding down a part-time job as a teenager or student may not be glamorous. But it is a chance to dip one's toe into the world of work and take a crucial first step into adulthood.

But the number of young people doing a Saturday job has halved in 15 years, according to the UK Commission for Employment and Skills.

The economic downturn has made it tougher for young people to find any job. For those seeking a career there is now greater pressure to target a certain profession and gain work experience.

Those who go on to successful careers often cite those days of waiting tables or picking fruit as formative experiences. Sean Connery began working as a milkman when he was 14, earning 21 shillings a week.

Sir Terry Leahy ended up running Tesco after taking a holiday job stacking tea and coffee, George Clooney once tried his hand at selling women's shoes, while the comedian Sean Lock worked on building sites.

It's hard to define what a "proper job" is. White collar work is aspirational and professionals in finance, advertising, journalism and the law often work extremely long hours. But there is a nagging sense that sitting at a desk all one's life is not always "real" work in the same way as some other jobs are.

A person who has never toiled at grimy, physical or monotonous labour has somehow missed out. It goes beyond career development, to the idea of shaping a more rounded person.

The three main party political leaders have at times been accused of failing the proper job test. They are perceived to be career politicians who have done nothing outside media or politics.

David Cameron worked as a political researcher, for a multi-national in Hong Kong, and for media firm Carlton Communications. Nick Clegg has worked as a skiing instructor, for a Finnish bank, as an intern for the journalist Christopher Hitchens, and as a trainee for a Brussels NGO. Ed Miliband reviewed plays for LBC radio, worked as an intern for Tony Benn and as a special adviser to Gordon Brown.

For MP Dennis Skinner, who worked as a miner for 21 years, parliament has become far too homogeneous. "It's a very narrow band in parliament. A lot more people used to come from different areas of work when I was first an MP." He believes his time working in the pits gave him "hinterland".

Tom Hodgkinson, editor of the Idler magazine, says that varied, part-time jobs make for a happier society. "We should all be far more generalist and capable. Everyone should do Saturday jobs because they increase humility and counteract a major problem - an excess pride among young people."

But is that a nostalgic thesis in an increasingly specialist world? Dr Paul Sissons, senior researcher at the Work Foundation, argues that the best determinant of career success is getting good grades. "Formal qualifications are still the essential determinant of labour market outcomes."

The other thing sought by employers is work experience. "For particular work areas where you specialise, clearly the most important thing is gathering the relevant skills," Sissons says.

The message seems to be study hard and get a good internship.

The rise of the ambitious intern has coincided with the demise of the temp. Alan Milburn, the government's social mobility tsar has warned that unpaid internships are often only affordable to those from wealthy families.

Tyler Brule, editor in chief of Monocle, says that students on summer holidays need to take real jobs rather than getting their parents to pester friends for internships.

He has noticed a decline in the number of applicants listing part-time jobs on their CVs. For Brule, who stacked shelves and cleaned yachts as a young man, this exacerbates a problem with the younger generation. "They're not recognising a hierarchy. Or understanding that no means no, that the discussion is over and that it's time to get back to work."

A job is a privilege and not a right, he argues. You can't start off as a production editor straight away, for example, he suggests. You have to do your time, starting at the bottom. And everyone needs to have experienced what it's like to stock shelves, scoop ice cream, wait tables or scrub floors.

These experiences often build camaraderie between people who, on the face of it, have little in common. Earning your own money is a step towards financial independence. There are valuable lessons about deadlines, punctuality, and not snitching on colleagues. It may feature ranting bosses or a disdainful public.

Oliver Burkeman, author of The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking, says Saturday jobs are good for children at school on three provisos - they should be properly remunerated, have a modest time commitment and be regular.

Sometimes - as with his summer job as a filing clerk for York City Council - it's about dealing with boredom. At others, it's about coping with annoying colleagues. These experiences forge something precious in later life - resilience.

"There's a huge amount of evidence that we develop resilience when things are not going our way." That's not to justify any job for life, but if one goes on to better things, these experiences help to develop character.

Julian Baggini, co-author of The Shrink and the Sage, agrees some jobs can be good for people. Someone who has worked as a waiter is more likely to be a respectful customer, he says.

Working six hour shifts with a ten-minute break in a fast food restaurant during the 1980s taught Baggini about exploitation.

"But I'd be wary of saying that everyone who does this kind of work is destined to move on to other things." The sad reality is that some people will be doing these jobs all their lives, he suggests.

And sometimes people "slum it" for a few weeks and dine out on the experience for the rest of their lives.

"They may dabble in menial work and then wear it as a badge of pride. 'I know what it's like - I spent a summer fruit picking'. It's almost worse than someone who's never done a part-time job in their life."

[dgs49]

Rightly or wrongly, some blame the Minimum Wage for the shortage of bad jobs that can be done by teenagers. If they can't "earn" $7.50 an hour (or whatever it is), then few employers will pay it.

While in high school, I had jobs setting pins in a bowling alley, stocking shelves in a neighborhood market, and working as an assistant on a soda truck (delivering mainly to bars). IN MY OWN CASE, I took these jobs much more seriously than I should have, allowing them to interfere with my REAL job of being a good student.

My son insisted on having part time jobs during school even though it was not necessary and I tried to get him to focus more on school and extracurricular activities, which I though were more beneficial.

I think the best lesson of having a "bad" job while in school is to show the young person how miserable your life will likely be if you don't get an education or a marketable skill. Some of the most vile people I ever encountered were the ones who supervised me in my lousy jobs. These were (mainly) people who had acheived their topmost position in life supervising high school and college kids. Real losers.

If a kid really needs money, and that's the purpose for holding a job, s/he should be greatly encouraged to self-employ. Do odd jobs for neighbors. Painting, landscaping, cleanup, that sort of thing. Both the money and lessons are superior to a MW job.

[Big RR]

Not to hijack the thread, but when I was in HS (many years ago) I held a part time position putting tires on cars and installing batteries for a major discount chain; it was in a union shop and as a part time worker I not only made much more than the minimum wage, but got health and dental insurance paid for by the company (a great help as my father was out of work then). Evidently this did not put them out of business, nor did they refuse to hire teens.

Did I learn much that was useful? Not really, except that I hated that work ane, even though I could do it, was terrible with tools (we had a mechanic who did shocks and front end work, and I was a disaster when I tried to help him). But I did learn that there were many people who supported families doing the same sort of thing I did (albeit full time) and it made me aware that I should not dismiss their concerns so readily. What i saw as a mere stopover on the road to something greater, they saw as their lives, and that work deserved as much respect as any other. Sure, some were jerks (as were some of the teens), but most did their work with diligence and earned their pay. And, in retrospect, that was a lesson well-worth learning.

[Rick]

Well I see Brit Op Eds are no better than US Op Eds...

[dgs49]

Expanding on the original thought, I think it would be nice if ALL politicians were required to have a real job (or own a real business - not a political consulting firm) at some time in their adult life. Most of them have led either a pampered existence by virtue of family money or have been totally locked up in either politics or law,such that they are totally unaware of the issues that are relevant to people who actually have to work for a living and produce something of value, or be fired.

A PolySci professor once told me that the reason for the 2-year term in the U.S. House was so that the Reps could serve a term and get back to their farms or businesses without killing them due to absence. Would that it were so.

[Big RR]

I think that House of Representatives assessment from your PolySci professor is a bit short sighted; my understanding (from the reports of the debates at the Constitutional Convention, among other sources) was that the 2 year was insituted to assure that those elected to the House would reflect the current views of their constituency. If they just wanted them to return to their previous jobs after 2 years, they could have insitituted term l;imits, something they chose not to do.

[dales]

The crappy economy prevents many teens from finding any work.

[Big RR]

And plenty of adults as well.

[dales]

You are absolutely correct!

[BoSoxGal]

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed by Big RR; I held a number of intro level jobs - without health insurance or benefits - from the time I started working on payroll at age 15 as a Molly Maid.

I've cleaned toilets, flipped pizzas, stocked shelves and run a register, waited tables and tended bar. I've wallowed in retail hell on more than one occasion.

These jobs taught me that I wanted more for myself, something with real intellectual challenge and a deeper sense of meaning AND the luxury to take weekends off, if I wanted.

They also taught me to treat folks in those jobs with great respect - all of those jobs are necessary and some folks will spend their lives cleaning other folks' toilets, which is a perfectly noble calling.

[dgs49]

And another thing: A pox on those who tell teens and young adults that they must find "meaningful work."

That's classified as a "nice to have," but hardly essential. Somebody has to pick up the trash, and there is nothing wrong with doing it for a living. And you are not defined by what you do for a living, except in the minds of others who are not very bright.

[Sue U]

I've . . . flipped pizzas, . . .

Ur doing it rong.

[Crackpot]

Cleaning toilets comes in second place for the best jobs I've had.

[BoSoxGal]

I've . . . flipped pizzas, . . .

Ur doing it rong.

How do you figure? To get a great hand tossed pizza dough, some flipping of the dough definitely comes into the mix. I make a pizza to die for.

I guess I should have added, I picked up some mad skills through my years of regular jobs, and I don't mean to suggest those jobs aren't meaningful - I just wanted something with more meaning and mission, especially as it became more and more obvious I would not have children.

[Sue U]

I've . . . flipped pizzas, . . .

Ur doing it rong.

How do you figure? To get a great hand tossed pizza dough, some flipping of the dough definitely comes into the mix. I make a pizza to die for.

I had a vision of flipping a la burgers. Tossing dough is definitely not wrong.

[BoSoxGal]

Yeah, I thought of that afterwards.

But as evinced elsewhere on the board, I do tend to make use of nonstandard descriptive language.