Not Really Thrilled About This....

Right? Left? Centre?
Political news and debate.
Put your views and articles up for debate and destruction!
Post Reply
User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Lord Jim »

Pentagon reviews ex-Navy SEAL's book about Osama bin Laden raid

The Defense Department and CIA consider legal action against the former SEAL, author of 'No Easy Day,' for failing to submit the work for a security review.

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon and CIA are reviewing a forthcoming book by a retired Navy SEAL who was on the May 2011 raid that killed Osama bin Laden, and they are considering legal action against the author for failing to submit his account for security review, officials said.

U.S. intelligence officials are scrutinizing "No Easy Day" by former SEAL Matt Bissonnette to see if it reveals sensitive sources and techniques or operational details, a process that could take weeks.

The book, due to go on sale next week and already on bestseller lists, has sparked a fierce debate in the close-knit special operations community about whether the long-standing ethic to stay silent for those who carry out America's most sensitive military operations is breaking down after a decade of war.

PHOTOS: The death of Osama bin Laden

Several U.S. officials who have read the book said it apparently does not quote from clearly classified documents, such as intelligence reports about Bin Laden's whereabouts or after-action reports about the raid. Even so, the officials conducting the review are examining closely whether special operations tactics possibly useful to insurgents might be disclosed.

The account is the first by a member of SEAL Team Six, which carried out the stealthy nighttime assault on Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

Bissonnette writes that he was ascending a staircase in the dark when a SEAL ahead of him opened fire at Bin Laden as he peeked out of a second-floor doorway, according to the Associated Press, which obtained a copy of the book. The SEALs discovered Bin Laden lying in a pool of blood and fired several more times until his body stopped moving, the book claims.

Several details in his account differ slightly from those offered by administration officials in the hours and days after Bin Laden's death. Some officials said at the time that Bin Laden was killed when it appeared he might be reaching for a weapon.

Bissonnette's book comes days after another group of former special operations members launched a harshly worded website and released a short film criticizing President Obama for what they said was his administration's exploitation of the raid for political gain.

Last week, Adm. Bill McRaven, who heads Special Operations Command, said he was "concerned about the growing trend of using the special operations 'brand,' our seal, symbols and unit names, as part of any political or special interest campaign."

Noting that every special operator signs an agreement not to disclose classified information, McRaven wrote that "if the U.S. Special Operations Command finds that an active duty, retired or former service member violated that agreement … we will pursue every option available to hold members accountable, including criminal prosecution, where appropriate."

Bissonnette, 36, who had been awarded five bronze stars, left the military last summer. He had not served long enough to qualify for a pension, which could make it more difficult for the Pentagon to punish him — if it decides to do so — by withholding benefits, officials conceded.

So far, Republican members of Congress and others who sharply criticized Obama and his aides for releasing details about the raid to the public, to authors and to a pair of Hollywood filmmakers, have been largely silent about a first-person memoir by a former SEAL who took part in the attack.

Scott Taylor, a former SEAL who left the military in 2005 and is a founder of a group critical of the Obama administration, called Bissonnette a "hero," however. In a telephone interview, he said "a pervasive culture of leaks" had probably encouraged Bissonnette to write his account.

"Certainly operation security protections apply to everyone up and down the chain of command, but this book probably would not have been written" if the Obama administration had not encouraged the idea that disclosure of details about the raids was acceptable, Taylor said.

It is the latest in a series of popular books, films and media accounts about elite commandos that have offered unprecedented glimpses of a world that long operated in secrecy. To what extent the disclosures have damaged national security — or were simply part of a public relations strategy — is unclear.

With copies of the book already circulating, the government has little chance of keeping secret any sensitive details it contains. But officials said they are considering a Justice Department lawsuit against Bissonnette for failing to comply with the requirement to submit the book for review.

"We're considering our options," said Army Lt. Col. James Gregory, a Pentagon spokesman.

Any attempt to punish Bissonnette could create a political minefield for the Obama administration, however. The White House could face criticism for going after a former SEAL when senior officials have largely escaped scrutiny.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/29 ... k-20120830

I really hate the idea of saying that a genuine hero, a guy who earned five Bronze Stars should face punishment, including possible criminal prosecution for his account of an operation he took part in, but that's really the way I'm leaning....

If he didn't disclose classified information, then why couldn't he have complied with the legal obligation he freely undertook to submit any book he wrote for Pentagon review, to assure that did not happen?

Maybe he didn't reveal anything classified, or that could endanger operations. Maybe he didn't meet his legal obligation to submit the book for a security review just as a demonstration of defiance and contempt.

That wouldn't make it okay.

I am one of those who has been outraged and appalled by the series of leaks, (some relating to the Bin Ladin raid, as well as others about the procedures for the selection of drone targets, and probably worst of all, the leaks about the mole we got into Al Qaeda which foiled a plane explosion plot.) that have clearly come from someone with a high enough security clearance to have access to some highly sensitive information, who was attempting to help Obama politically.

The investigation in to this so far has been a complete joke. It's obvious that it is Holder's intent to hold a lid on this through the election, as it has been dragging on for months.

When you think about it logically, there's really no reason for a real investigation to take that long to get to the bottom of this, if it were made a priority. There can only be a set number of people who had a high enough security clearance to have access to the information that was revealed, and who would have had a motive to want to help Obama politically. You get these folks, (from the White House, the Pentagon, the NSA, the CIA, the campaign etc....it won't be that many people total, because it has to be somebody fairly senior.) you strap them up to a lie detector, and you could sort this out in a couple of days.

It's overwhelmingly obvious that the Administration is in no particular hurry to get the bottom of this, and it's perfectly understandable why. If it turned out to be somebody really close to the President, (like say, David Axelrod for example) it could have a devastating effect on one of Obama's few bright spots, (his record on national security) and be the final straw that costs him the election.

(Of course it will be much worse if it turns out that in addition to the leaker being someone like Axelrod, the White House then engaged in an operation to cover this fact up....but politicians rarely seem to learn that lesson....)

But all of that having been said....

That does not justify giving a pass to anyone else (even someone like this soldier, for whom I have an enormous amount of respect) to decide to become a law unto himself where national security is concerned.

This part was particularly troubling to me:
"Certainly operation security protections apply to everyone up and down the chain of command, but this book probably would not have been written" if the Obama administration had not encouraged the idea that disclosure of details about the raids was acceptable, Taylor said.
If that's the thinking that's behind this....

That misconduct on the part of someone senior regarding the release of secret information relating to national security sources and methods makes it "open season" for people lower in the food chain to do the same thing, then it needs to be nipped in the bud, and an example needs to be made to put a stop to it.

And then an even bigger example needs to made out of whoever was responsible for the initial politically motivated leaks.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Joe Guy
Posts: 15384
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:40 pm
Location: Redweird City, California

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Joe Guy »

He wasn't that great of a soldier. He only got five bronze stars.

He never got the silver or gold.

rubato
Posts: 14245
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:14 pm

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by rubato »

Speaking of morally vacant.

' He was wrong to do it but it's really someone else[Obama]'s fault for promoting a 'culture of leaks'. '

Now that is some kind of original moral thinking! I can see where their fluency with lying comes from.

yrs,
rubato

liberty
Posts: 4949
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:31 pm
Location: Colonial Possession

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by liberty »

Haven’t we been here before? Hasn’t something similar happened in the past when we had a republican president?
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

User avatar
loCAtek
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: My San Ho'metown

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by loCAtek »

I'm finding hard to believe ANY Navy SEAL would be so irresponsible, for any amount of money. Shoot, the things the Seabees do [construction wise] can be classified for 25 years or more, and supposedly this guy was in on the Geronimo Mission, but quickly retired less than a year later AND had the time to write about it for a FAT publishing fee? ...??? ...!??? :confussed:

Com'on shoot, guys who claim to be SEALs in bars get blanket parties for thier outlandish claims; this guy's asking for a blanket festival.

Andrew D
Posts: 3150
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:01 pm
Location: North California

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Andrew D »

The most important fact in the article:
So far, Republican members of Congress and others who sharply criticized Obama and his aides for releasing details about the raid to the public, to authors and to a pair of Hollywood filmmakers, have been largely silent about a first-person memoir by a former SEAL who took part in the attack.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Andrew D
Posts: 3150
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:01 pm
Location: North California

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Andrew D »

loCAtek wrote:Com'on shoot, guys who claim to be SEALs in bars get blanket parties for thier outlandish claims; this guy's asking for a blanket festival.
And if there is justice in the world, every participant in a "blanket party" spends the last weeks of its revolting little excuse for a life begging to be allowed to die.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Econoline »

liberty wrote:Haven’t we been here before? Hasn’t something similar happened in the past when we had a republican president?
Yes, and neither Robert Novak nor Richard Armitage nor Dick Cheney nor Lewis Libby nor Karl Rove nor anyone else went to jail for deliberately outing a CIA “deep cover officer”, endangering her overseas contacts, and hampering future CIA nuclear proliferation related operations. (So what was the message sent by that whole affair?)
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Lord Jim »

Yes, and neither Robert Novak nor Richard Armitage nor Dick Cheney nor Lewis Libby nor Karl Rove nor anyone else went to jail
In that case, we had an Independent Counsel appointed to investigate what happened....

Let's have that here....

In that case, Lewis Libby , (who was found to be the person who had violated the law by violating their security clearance and leaking the material, none of the other people in your list were found to have done so by the very rigorous independent investigation.) was in fact indicted, tried and sentenced. (He then had his sentence commuted by the President. Let's give Obama the opportunity to do that.)

A reporter also spent a considerable amount of time in jail for contempt in that case for refusing to reveal her source of the information.

I have no desire to re-hash the whole Plame thing, (and I hope it won't be used to try to de-rail a discussion of this case and how it's being handled) but since Econo made that grossly overstated and melodramatic characterization of what was involved there, it's worth noting that some of the violations of releasing highly classified information in this case are many orders of magnitude more serious than what happened there.

Plame had not been a field agent for years; her status as a "deep cover officer" was primarily a matter of paper work.

In just one of the current leaks, the presence of a mole within Al Qaeda was publicly revealed within days of the bomb plot being foiled.

And that's just one of them.....

And yet the Plame case merited an Independent Counsel but none has been appointed in this case....

The excuse that Holder cynically gave for not appointing one when this blew up was that by keeping this as an "in-house" investigation, the investigation would proceed more quickly, (Since Justice department lawyers wouldn't have to do things like hire staff to get started etc.)

Yeah, how's that workin' out? :D
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Scooter
Posts: 17264
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Scooter »

Lord Jim wrote:Plame had not been a field agent for years; her status as a "deep cover officer" was primarily a matter of paper work.
She had not been overseas in several years, but the CIA front organization she operated from was still active. There were agents in the field associated with it who were put directly in harm's way by that leak.

And perhaps the reluctance to go the independent prosecutor route this time had something to do with the fact that the FBI could not make a case out of the leak, in spite of the glaring breach of security, and had to be content with nailing Libby on perjury and obstruction.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Lord Jim »

the CIA front organization she operated from was still active. There were agents in the field associated with it who were put directly in harm's way by that leak.
Okay Scooter, for the sake of argument I'll concede that as true. (I said at the time the whole way that was handled was stupid and reckless; While it's a fact that Joe Wilson was out to damage the Administration politically and that he had told one story to his CIA de-brefiers and another in his article in the NY Times, and that they had a right to respond to that, what they should have done was declassify everything related to Wilson's African trip and released it to the entire media. All of which they could have done in a way that would not have endangered any ongoing covert operations)
perhaps the reluctance to go the independent prosecutor route this time had something to do with the fact that the FBI could not make a case out of the leak, in spite of the glaring breach of security, and had to be content with nailing Libby on perjury and obstruction.
Well, that would mean that Holder's reasoning for not appointing an Independent Counsel in this case was something like:

"I don't want to appoint an Independent Counsel to investigate this because I'm concerned that they won't be able to punish the leaker harshly enough"....

I have a really hard time thinking that was his rationale....

The fact is that Administrations of both parties are very reluctant to appoint ICs absent sufficient political pressure to do so, because they don't like to have investigations of their conduct going on that they cannot control.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Lord Jim »

I'm finding hard to believe ANY Navy SEAL would be so irresponsible, for any amount of money.
LoCa, nobody is disputing that this guy is in fact a SEAL who took part in this operation. That seems to established as a fact.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Rick
Posts: 3875
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Arkansas

Re: Not Really Thrilled About This....

Post by Rick »

Security Classification Policy and Procedure:
E.O. 12958, as Amended

Obama’s Review of E.O. 12958 (pg 10 & 11)
On May 27, 2009, President Barack H. Obama issued a memorandum ordering a review of E.O.
12958.19 The President wrote,
[M]y Administration is committed to operating with an unprecedented level of openness.
While the Government must be able to prevent the public disclosure of information where
such disclosure would compromise the privacy of American citizens, national security, or
other legitimate interests, a democratic government accountable to the people must be as transparent as possible and must not withhold information for self-serving reasons or simply
to avoid embarrassment.
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

Post Reply