http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/09/bloody ... residency/
Bloody Handprints
Bloody Handprints
I suppose I'll be the first to bring this up.
http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/09/bloody ... residency/
http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/09/bloody ... residency/
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Bloody Handprints
Sure, because a Republican president would have done what, come to Ghaddafi's aid to help him suppress the revolution? 
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
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Sue U
- Posts: 9101
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 pm
- Location: Eastern Megalopolis, North America (Midtown)
Re: Bloody Handprints
From the author's photo caption:
No agenda there, huh?a perfect metaphor for the failed pro-Islamist foreign policy of the worst President in America history, Barack Hussein Obama
GAH!
Re: Bloody Handprints
See beyond the two-party rubrik for a clearer glimpse of reality.
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Bloody Handprints
Kind of hard to do that when you use a source that is obviously using a national tragedy to score partisan political points, but...
You are a nation that either believes in the principle of self-determination or you don't. If you do, you need to accept that sometimes it's going to be a messy process. If you don't, then you have forfeited any moral authority you might have had in world affairs.
You are a nation that either believes in the principle of self-determination or you don't. If you do, you need to accept that sometimes it's going to be a messy process. If you don't, then you have forfeited any moral authority you might have had in world affairs.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Re: Bloody Handprints
I bought this up to facilitate discussion, my source obviously has his own ass axe to grind.
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
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Sue U
- Posts: 9101
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 pm
- Location: Eastern Megalopolis, North America (Midtown)
Re: Bloody Handprints
What is the discussion you wanted to facilitate? What is the question you are raising?
GAH!
Re: Bloody Handprints
What will the US do?, should do?, might do?, won't do?, will do?, try to?, not try to? and in the end......does it make a difference?
Russia said we got what we deserved by helping topple Quaddafi.
Russia said we got what we deserved by helping topple Quaddafi.
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
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Grim Reaper
- Posts: 944
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:21 pm
Re: Bloody Handprints
Seems our embassies aren't the only ones being targeted. The UK and German embassies in Sudan were attacked as well.
Bunch of easily led people, you'd almost think this film was created just to use as a tool to incite riots.
Bunch of easily led people, you'd almost think this film was created just to use as a tool to incite riots.
Re: Bloody Handprints
I think it's important to separate out what happened in Libya from some of this other temper tantrum stuff...
What happened in Benghazi was an organized, pre-planned terrorist attack...
There is no reason to believe that it reflects any kind of general unhappiness with the US or The West on the part o f the Libyan people ; the freely elected secular Libyan government has been with us in dealing with this since the attack was launched, and has been fully cooperative with us in going after the perpetrators...(there are reports that we may have good intel on this, and that US special forces may already be on the ground, with the full cooperation of the Libyans, to apprehend or kill those responsible)
As a matter of fact, there have been some pro-US demonstrations in Benghazi since this happened...
Supporting the overthrow of Qaddafi was absolutely the right thing to do, and there is no reason whatsoever to believe this is an example of ingratitude on the part of the Libyan people...
I know that there's a really strong visceral impulse when something like this happens to simply say, "they're all no damn good, fuck 'em all" (I understand that impulse, and to a certain extent share it.)
But that's what the scumbags who did this are counting on; cooler heads need to prevail.
What happened in Benghazi was an organized, pre-planned terrorist attack...
There is no reason to believe that it reflects any kind of general unhappiness with the US or The West on the part o f the Libyan people ; the freely elected secular Libyan government has been with us in dealing with this since the attack was launched, and has been fully cooperative with us in going after the perpetrators...(there are reports that we may have good intel on this, and that US special forces may already be on the ground, with the full cooperation of the Libyans, to apprehend or kill those responsible)
As a matter of fact, there have been some pro-US demonstrations in Benghazi since this happened...
Supporting the overthrow of Qaddafi was absolutely the right thing to do, and there is no reason whatsoever to believe this is an example of ingratitude on the part of the Libyan people...
I know that there's a really strong visceral impulse when something like this happens to simply say, "they're all no damn good, fuck 'em all" (I understand that impulse, and to a certain extent share it.)
But that's what the scumbags who did this are counting on; cooler heads need to prevail.
Re: Bloody Handprints
Grim Reaper wrote:Seems our embassies aren't the only ones being targeted. The UK and German embassies in Sudan were attacked as well.
Bunch of easily led people, you'd almost think this film was created just to use as a tool to incite riots.
Anti-Muslim Christian bigots lit the match.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Bloody Handprints
You could say that Obama, following the lead of France, Germany and several other NATO allies, made this possible by overthrowing a strong and violently repressive central government. Certainly that is true and this is a forseeable consequence of that action. But you can only condemn him if you agree that it is always wrong to try to get rid of a brutal totalitarian government like that of Aparthied S. AFrica, the Soviet Union, Pinochet's Chile, N. Korea, both the prior and current regime's in Iran (the Shah and the Mullahs), Assad's Syria &c.
Blaming this one on Obama is purely for those who start with a conclusion and then distort the evidence to fit it.
yrs,
rubato
Blaming this one on Obama is purely for those who start with a conclusion and then distort the evidence to fit it.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Bloody Handprints
Yo, moron, that's not what happened here...You could say that Obama, following the lead of France, Germany and several other NATO allies, made this possible by overthrowing a strong and violently repressive central government. Certainly that is true and this is a forseeable consequence of that action.
I realize you have severe reading comprehension issues, but the fact of the matter is...(one more time, slowly, so maybe you can catch it) this doesn't represent anything more than a terrorist organization that launched an attack, which the existing pro-West Libyan government and military forces are working hand in glove with our forces to apprehend.
I understand that's a little too complex for your ultra simplistic mental schematic to synthesize, but it really is a little more involved than your simple minded, one-size-fits-all "forseeable consequence" model ...
Re: Bloody Handprints
So in your world Iago is blameless?
He did nothing?
It was just speech.
yrs,
rubato
He did nothing?
It was just speech.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Bloody Handprints
Personally, though on it's face what happened in Libya looks worse, I find what happened in Egypt to be far more troubling from a US strategic interests standpoint....
In Egypt, the police sat on their hands while our Embassy was breached, and the government, (until the last couple of days) seemed to siding with the hell raisers, and even calling for more demonstrations in an apparent attempt to whip up anti-Americanism, rather than trying to tamp it down.....
The Egyptian military establishment did everything they could to thwart organizing efforts by democratic, secular political parties in the run up to their presidential elections, (despite this, the secular parties collectively won a clear majority in the first round) so the Egyptian people would be confronted with a choice between The Islamic Brotherhood and their own Mubarak Lite....
After the Brotherhood candidate barely won, (with a lot of votes from people who had no interest in or support for an Islamist agenda; people who voted for Mursi simply to try and create some counter weight to military rule) the thinking was that the military would keep him on a pretty short leash....
I've been frankly somewhat surprised by the extent to which they have allowed him to operate....
It makes me wonder if a cynical game isn't being played here by the top military leadership....
Whereby they plan to give Mursi enough rope to hang himself...he has absolutely no mandate or popular support for a lot of the steps he seems to be taking...
Maybe they're going to let him go so far that when they topple him in a coup the majority of the Egyptian population will support it, and the US government will issue perfunctory public criticism, but privately breath a sigh of relief and not take any punitive measures.
In Egypt, the police sat on their hands while our Embassy was breached, and the government, (until the last couple of days) seemed to siding with the hell raisers, and even calling for more demonstrations in an apparent attempt to whip up anti-Americanism, rather than trying to tamp it down.....
The Egyptian military establishment did everything they could to thwart organizing efforts by democratic, secular political parties in the run up to their presidential elections, (despite this, the secular parties collectively won a clear majority in the first round) so the Egyptian people would be confronted with a choice between The Islamic Brotherhood and their own Mubarak Lite....
After the Brotherhood candidate barely won, (with a lot of votes from people who had no interest in or support for an Islamist agenda; people who voted for Mursi simply to try and create some counter weight to military rule) the thinking was that the military would keep him on a pretty short leash....
I've been frankly somewhat surprised by the extent to which they have allowed him to operate....
It makes me wonder if a cynical game isn't being played here by the top military leadership....
Whereby they plan to give Mursi enough rope to hang himself...he has absolutely no mandate or popular support for a lot of the steps he seems to be taking...
Maybe they're going to let him go so far that when they topple him in a coup the majority of the Egyptian population will support it, and the US government will issue perfunctory public criticism, but privately breath a sigh of relief and not take any punitive measures.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Bloody Handprints
And oh yes, lost in all the news of all this Muslim World temper tantrum stuff about this stupid movie, was another really serious development in the Mid East last week...
Bibi Netanyahu's latest round of threats to strike Iran (which may very well be something that will need to happen, but it's difficult to see what good purpose this sort of high profile saber rattling serves.)
Obama and Netanyahu clearly have the worst personal relationship between a US President and an Israeli Prime Minister in the history of US-Israeli relations....
George HW Bush didn't care much for Yitzak Shamir, and Jimmy Carter detested Menachem Begin, but in neither of those cases did the animus become as public as it has become between these two...
I get the impression that Netanyahu views what he sees as Obama's minimizing attitude about Iran as a genuine threat to Israel....
To the extent that it makes me wonder if he might not launch an attack on Iran just in an effort to cost Obama the election...
If that's something he's thinking about, he ought to think twice; as I've pointed out before if the US is drawn into a military confrontation with Iran, it could very easily work to Obama's advantage politically in the short term...American's tend to rally around their President in times of international crisis, at least at the outset...
Bibi Netanyahu's latest round of threats to strike Iran (which may very well be something that will need to happen, but it's difficult to see what good purpose this sort of high profile saber rattling serves.)
Obama and Netanyahu clearly have the worst personal relationship between a US President and an Israeli Prime Minister in the history of US-Israeli relations....
George HW Bush didn't care much for Yitzak Shamir, and Jimmy Carter detested Menachem Begin, but in neither of those cases did the animus become as public as it has become between these two...
I get the impression that Netanyahu views what he sees as Obama's minimizing attitude about Iran as a genuine threat to Israel....
To the extent that it makes me wonder if he might not launch an attack on Iran just in an effort to cost Obama the election...
If that's something he's thinking about, he ought to think twice; as I've pointed out before if the US is drawn into a military confrontation with Iran, it could very easily work to Obama's advantage politically in the short term...American's tend to rally around their President in times of international crisis, at least at the outset...
Re: Bloody Handprints
What Jim said. 
Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Bloody Handprints
Isn't it about time the US stopped being Israel's; "big buddy who'll beat you up if you are nasty to me"?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”