Santorum: Smart people aren't with us. Cantor shows why.

[Scooter]

You could not make this shit up:

Rick Santorum inadvertently characterized conservative values as something smart people do not have.

We will never have the media on our side, ever, in this country. We will never have the elite, smart people on our side.

And why is it so important to "defend" marriage? Let House Majority Leader Eric Cantor break it down for you.

That is why we believe in traditional marriage, because marriage, more than any government program ever has or ever will, has lifted up people out of poverty, even those who felt there was no hope. Marriage has proven to be that formula which has been more successful at allowing for that pursuit of happiness. And that is why we stand tall and stand proud for traditional marriage.

So getting married and creating more dependents for themselves to support is the way for people to lift themselves out of poverty. And if same-sex couples are allowed to marry, the poverty-alleviating effect of marriage will disappear.

Can't imagine how "smart people" could possibly refuse to get behind that kind of logic.

[Lord Jim]

We will never have the elite, smart people on our side.

Oh my...

Of course Mr. Santorum (and Mrs. Santorum) are both "elite smart people"....

Though you certainly couldn't tell it from that statement....

If Rick had run the kind of campaign that Long Run and I suggested he run, (rather than the wander off into the social issues weeds campaign that he ran) he probably would have won the nomination and be much better positioned to win the election than Romney is....

So I guess he wasn't real smart...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Maybe it depends a bit on punctuation:

We will never have the elite, "smart" people on our side.

Mind you, the second guy seems a bit of an idiot

Second from the left on the Chain of Being probably

Meade

[dgs49]

For any cogent people who heard Santorum's remarks, the word, "smart" was to be understood in quotation marks, that is, the "so called," or "self proclaimed," "smart" people. To say or believe that Santorum was referring to intelligent people is ridiculous.

And Rep. Cantor was referring to the statistical "anomaly" that adults in intact marriages are dramatically more likely to be economically prosperous - at least middle class - than single adults with the same demographic characteristics, especially single parents.

And the relationship of this remark to sexual aberrants in monogamous relationships is close to non-existent. Although one might note that there has never been any credible evidence of homosexuals being economically victimized.

[Scooter]

Obviously Santorum did not intend to say that intelligent people would not be attracted to the Republican Party; unfortunately for Mr. Foot-in-Mouth Disease, that is precisely how it came out. He further compounds the gaffe by going on to say:

So the colleges and universities, they're not gonna be on our side.

So first he says that smart people won't be on their side, and then he says that those who are among the most educated are not going to be on their side. And yet Dave insists that there was nothing stupid about the way he was trying to make his point, whatever that was.

And Rep. Cantor was referring to the statistical "anomaly" that adults in intact marriages are dramatically more likely to be economically prosperous - at least middle class - than single adults with the same demographic characteristics

And it was the act of getting a marriage certificate that made that happen? Does getting married confer some sort of boost in earning potential that gives married couples a leg up on those who live together without marriage?

And the relationship of this remark to sexual aberrants in monogamous relationships is close to non-existent.

Then you agree that it was stupid of him to attempt to link it to any defense of "traditional marriage". Thank you.

Although one might note that there has never been any credible evidence of homosexuals being economically victimized.

Of course not. The people who are fired from the jobs every day of the week for being gay aren't harmed at all by losing their livelihood. And forcing a surviving spouse to pay $363,000 in taxes because the federal government refuses to recognize her marriage wouldn't possibly create any sort of economic hardship.

[Gob]

A secretly filmed video has emerged showing Mitt Romney disparaging Barack Obama voters at a private donor dinner.

The Republican nominee is shown saying the 47% of Americans who back the president do not pay income tax and would never vote for him.

"I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives," Mr Romney says.
In a statement, his campaign said Mr Romney "wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy".

But the statement did not dispute the authenticity of the video, which was published by liberal investigative magazine Mother Jones.

"As the [former Massachusetts] governor has made clear all year, he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people who are on food stamps, nearly one in six Americans in poverty, and the 23 million Americans who are struggling to find work," spokeswoman Gail Gitcho said in a statement.

Earlier, Mr Romney's campaign unveiled a significant reworking of its strategy less than two months before election day.

Campaign advisers told the US media on Monday that Mr Romney would speak more on his specific policy proposals in the coming days and weeks.

Until now his message to voters has largely consisted of repeated attacks on President Barack Obama's economic record.

Who pays US income tax?

The US federal government runs off two kinds of taxes: payroll taxes, which fund benefits such as Social Security, and income taxes, which largely fund the rest of the federal budget.

In 2011, the Tax Policy Center studied the tax liability of US households:

53.6% paid income taxes, 46.4% did not
28.3% paid payroll taxes but not income taxes
10.3% were elderly and retired and were not taxed on Social Security benefits
6.9% did not pay any tax with household incomes of less than $20,000 (£12,300)
The majority of those who pay payroll but not income tax do so because of tax benefits for the elderly, families with children and low-income earners.

[oldr_n_wsr]

families with children

For many years I was in a family with children. As a matter of fact most of my life I was either a dependent in a family of children or a father/husband in a family with children and never in my whole life have either my dad and mom not paid income tax nor did I ever not pay income tax. The same holds true for the people I know. So who are these families with children who don't pay income tax and how do I get a refund?

Bottom line is almost 50% (46.blah blah blah) don't pay income taxes. I have yet to figure out how to not pay income taxes.

And how do you give an income tax break to people who don't pay income taxes?

[Guinevere]

Easy oldr -- don't have a job, or a job which pays very much, for a long time. Do you not get there are millions of families who make minimum wage, and once you take into account the standard deduction, and other potential deductions and/or credits, their income is below the taxable threshold.

Plenty of these people work hard, take personal responsibility, and take care of their lives, despite Mittens' sneering condescension. And they didn't grow up in Bloomfield Hills, and have a major corporate CEO as a father (i.e., a privileged start) either.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Do you not get there are millions of families who make minimum wage, and once you take into account the standard deduction, and other potential deductions and/or credits, their income is below the taxable threshold.

But nearly 50% of the working households???
Even when I first got married and had a son not more than 1 year into our marriage (wife not working) I still paid income taxes after deductions.

[Guinevere]

The stats don't say nearly 50% of working households. 28% pay FICA but no income tax (I don't know if that's 28% of all households (also no information on how "household" is defined), or 28% of the 46% that didn't pay income taxes -- the listing is unclear).

[rubato]

When people focus on only one of the many federal taxes which people pay they are usually not telling the truth. To say nothing of the state and local taxes; some states tax income for people well below the poverty line.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/41654

Table 1A
Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households, by Comprehensive Household Income Quintile, 1979-2005

Year .... Lowest .... Second .... Middle .... Fourth .... Highest ….. All Quintiles …. Top 10% .... Top 5% .... Top 1%



Total Effective Federal Tax Rate
2005 …………… 4.3 …………… 9.9 …………… 14.2 …………… 17.4 …………… 25.5 …………… 20.5 …………… 27.4 …………… 28.9 …………… 31.2
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
Effective Individual Income Tax Rate …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
2005 …………… -6.5 …………… -1.0 …………… 3.0 …………… 6.0 …………… 14.1 …………… 9.0 …………… 16.0 …………… 17.6 …………… 19.4
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
Effective Social Insurance Tax Rate …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
2005 …………… 8.3 …………… 9.2 …………… 9.5 …………… 9.7 …………… 6.0 …………… 7.6 …………… 4.8 …………… 3.5 …………… 1.7
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
Effective Corporate Income Tax Rate …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
2005 …………… 0.4 …………… 0.5 …………… 0.7 …………… 1.0 …………… 4.9 …………… 3.1 …………… 6.1 …………… 7.4 …………… 9.9
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
…………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
Effective Excise Tax Rate …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… …………… ……………
2005 …………… 2.1 …………… 1.3 …………… 1.0 …………… 0.8 …………… 0.5 …………… 0.8 …………… 0.4 …………… 0.3 …………… 0.2

[oldr_n_wsr]

Isn't FICA a percentage of your gross with no way out of it?
I see on my check it's taken out that way.

If we accept that as the way it is (and we may or may not agree on that) for arguments sake, the way I read it is that 100% (or close to) of the people earning thier money due to wages (aka income) 28% of those pay FICA but no income taxes and 46% of all those earning wages do not pay income taxes. I don't know how you get out of soc sec and medicare/caid taxes.

But you are correct in that it is not clear at all.

[rubato]

Isn't FICA a percentage of your gross with no way out of it?
I see on my check it's taken out that way.

If we accept that as the way it is (and we may or may not agree on that) for arguments sake, the way I read it is that 100% (or close to) of the people earning thier money due to wages (aka income) 28% of those pay FICA but no income taxes and 46% of all those earning wages do not pay income taxes. I don't know how you get out of soc sec and medicare/caid taxes.

But you are correct in that it is not clear at all.

Every dollar you make more than $110,100 has a SS tax rate of 0% (FICA includes medicare which is 1% of everything)

Everyone pays (directly or indirectly) sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, various 'fees' (DMV, drivers license, state part user fees &c) SS taxes (up to the limit mentioned above) and most pay state income taxes.

When someone talks about 'lucky ducks who don't pay taxes', a common Republican meme, they are lying.

yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

It does not say 46% of those earning wages do not pay income taxes. It says 46% of households did not pay income taxes. That would include the unemployed, seniors collecting pensions, as well as those with earned incomes low enough not to have to pay income taxes.

Oh yeah, and it also includes several thousand people who make over $1 million who managed to use various shelters, deductions and loopholes to avoid paying any income tax whatsoever. Given Romney's refusal to release his tax returns, I would guess that included him in some of the years he has chosen not to release (despite the fact that all of his shortlisted candidates for VP were told to hand over 10 years of returns).

And the numbers seem very clear to me, it says 46.4% of households did not pay income tax and the breakdown it provides comes very close to accounting for all of that number:
28.3% were those who were working and paying payroll taxes but not enough to pay income tax
A further 6.9% did not earn enough to pay payroll taxes either.
10.3% were seniors

Those add up to 45.5%. I could easily see the remaining 0.9% being those who had non-employment income (from investments, etc.) and who, no doubt like the Romneys in some years, managed their deductions in some way to avoid having to pay any tax.

[Sue U]

Two years ago I was one the people who did not pay any federal income tax. In addition to deductions for three dependent children and charitable givng, I had a federal tax credit for a portion of the cost of installing a solar electric energy system on my house, which ate up my tax liablity for the year. The goverment provides incentives for certain activities through the tax code as a means of implementing puublic policy. That doesn't make me dependent on the government, expecting handouts and not taking personal responsibility and care for my life (so fuck you, Mitt Romney).

[Guinevere]

Two years ago I was one the people who did not pay any federal income tax. In addition to deductions for three dependent children and charitable givng, I had a federal tax credit for a portion of the cost of installing a solar electric energy system on my house, which ate up my tax liablity for the year. The goverment provides incentives for certain activities through the tax code as a means of implementing puublic policy. That doesn't make me dependent on the government, expecting handouts and not taking personal responsibility and care for my life (so fuck you, Mitt Romney).

Me too, on all counts (although it was the first time home buyer tax credit that did it for me -- and one dependent cat).

I've also not had income tax liability when I was a full-time law student, and was also the unpaid editor of our law review, and worked two jobs. Clearly I'm a slacker.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You're all slackers, now send me your checks. Damnit somebody owes me something.

I even paid taxes every year on the kids college accounts I set up (before you were able to put money in a 401K type plan, I forget the number, 529???).
I paid state taxes on my unemployment money (state but not fed).
I don't think I ever got a check without the fed with-holding beyond FICA and I know I didn't get a refund check near that which was withheld for fed income taxes.


PS
Thanks for the info. It does matter to me when I hear these personal experiences rather than the data crunching/number crunching by the news media as they neither explain nor break down anything.
47%, 1%, 99%, 53% blah blah blah. Oh but the Occupy Wall Streeters are back. Had they invested their money in Apple stock instead of buying their ipods/pads/macs they would have had a 50% return in the last 5 years.
And do any of them protest against Apple for being the wealthiest corporation in the world (I think it was yesterday, todays returns are not in yet)? Or that EVERYTHING made by Apple is made overseas?

I've babbled enough.

[Guinevere]

Just to be clear, the only reason I got a check back was because I had pre-paid (most of) my potential liability through withholding. It's not like I paid nothing through the year *and* got back a check.

And of course I paid FICA and state income taxe - it is only federal income tax liability I'm referring to (and which is the subject to the data compiled by the Tax Policy Center).

[Scooter]

Oh yeah, I forgot - another chunk of that remaining 0.9% is soldiers who are deployed in combat zones and are exempt from paying federal taxes. Oops.

I wonder how much people who are currently risking their lives in uniform appreciate being lectured to by the Golden Boy about "personal responsibility".

One of these days, someone is going to write a manual on how to run a presidential campaign, and this is the one that is going to provide the most fodder for examples of all the things a candidate ought NOT to do or say.

[oldr_n_wsr]

soldiers who are deployed in combat zones and are exempt from paying federal taxes.

I would not charge them any tax be it income (federal/state/city) property and even sales tax. 100% of what they earn should be theres to spend without a dime going to any tax.