It turned out that way, but when you've got a guy who was picked up fighting for the Taliban, claiming to have met Osama Bin Ladin "twenty times" (That's not something he told his interrogators; that's a claim he made in a letter to his parents) in the wake of 9/11, it would have been negligent in the extreme not to thoroughly interrogate that person.But he never had; "some valuable intel on Al Qeada's plans and methods that could be important in thwarting future terror attacks,"?
Hick's nice little earner..
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
For five years? Using chemical torture?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
To me the funniest thing this guy has said, (and the thing that is so ridiculous that it makes it impossible to believe a word that comes out of his mouth) is the claim that he "never heard of" Al-Qaeda until he got to Gitmo...
That would be like saying, "Well, yeah, I met with Lucky Luciano all the time, but Mafia? What's that?"
The first rule of effective lying is to say something that at least could be true....
That would be like saying, "Well, yeah, I met with Lucky Luciano all the time, but Mafia? What's that?"
The first rule of effective lying is to say something that at least could be true....
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
I already said Strop, I would have asked for him to be returned to stand trial for treason after one year....For five years?
As for whatever "torture" this man may or may not have experienced, I absolutely will not take his word for it since he has told some preposterous lies.
Just came across this...
This is a quote from his book:
Yeah, right:How would a white boy new to Islam, not understanding local customs or languages, largely uneducated in the ways of the world, get access to such supposedly secret camps planning acts of terror?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_HicksOn 11 November 1999, Hicks travelled to Pakistan to study Islam[21][27] and began training with Lashkar-e-Taiba in early 2000.[28][29] In the U.S. Military Commission charges presented in 2004, the U.S. accused Hicks of training at the Mosqua Aqsa camp in Pakistan, after which he "travelled to a border region between Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and Indian-controlled Kashmir, where he engaged in hostile action against Indian forces."[13]
In a March 2000 letter to his family, Hicks wrote:
don't ask what's happened, I can't be bothered explaining the outcome of these strange events has put me in Pakistan-Kashmir in a training camp. Three months training. After which it is my decision whether to cross the line of control into Indian occupied Kashmir.
In another letter on 10 August 2000, Hicks wrote from Kashmir claiming to have been a guest of Pakistan's army for two weeks at the front in the "controlled war" with India:
I got to fire hundreds of bullets. Most Muslim countries impose hanging for civilians arming themselves for conflict. There are not many countries in the world where a tourist, according to his visa, can go to stay with the army and shoot across the border at its enemy, legally.[30]
During this period, Hicks kept a notebook to document his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
I'll give you that one, it's most unlikely...Lord Jim wrote:To me the funniest thing this guy has said, (and the thing that is so ridiculous that it makes it impossible to believe a word that comes out of his mouth) is the claim that he "never heard of" Al-Qaeda until he got to Gitmo...
That would be like saying, "Well, yeah, I met with Lucky Luciano all the time, but Mafia? What's that?"
The first rule of effective lying is to say something that at least could be true....
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Lord Jim wrote: This is a quote from his book:
Yeah, right:How would a white boy new to Islam, not understanding local customs or languages, largely uneducated in the ways of the world, get access to such supposedly secret camps planning acts of terror?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_HicksOn 11 November 1999, Hicks travelled to Pakistan to study Islam[21][27] and began training with Lashkar-e-Taiba in early 2000.[28][29] In the U.S. Military Commission charges presented in 2004, the U.S. accused Hicks of training at the Mosqua Aqsa camp in Pakistan, after which he "travelled to a border region between Pakistan-controlled Kashmir and Indian-controlled Kashmir, where he engaged in hostile action against Indian forces."[13]
In a March 2000 letter to his family, Hicks wrote:
don't ask what's happened, I can't be bothered explaining the outcome of these strange events has put me in Pakistan-Kashmir in a training camp. Three months training. After which it is my decision whether to cross the line of control into Indian occupied Kashmir.
In another letter on 10 August 2000, Hicks wrote from Kashmir claiming to have been a guest of Pakistan's army for two weeks at the front in the "controlled war" with India:
I got to fire hundreds of bullets. Most Muslim countries impose hanging for civilians arming themselves for conflict. There are not many countries in the world where a tourist, according to his visa, can go to stay with the army and shoot across the border at its enemy, legally.[30]
During this period, Hicks kept a notebook to document his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]
Nothing there indicates he had; "access to such supposedly secret camps planning acts of terror", you're confusing the Taliban, (USA's supported "freedon fighters") with Al Qaeda.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
It ALL contradicts the claims he made in his book, thus completely destroying his credibility....
He claims he was "new to Islam" when he converted to the religion two years earlier....
He claims he was "largely uneducated in the ways of the world" when he, by his own admission, (admissions he made long before he set foot in Gitmo)
*Spent three months in Pakistan receiving military training which he then put to use , firing "hundreds of bullets" in military actions.
* kept a notebook to document his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
" I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]"
(Hicks has sort of Mitt Romney problem....Everything he's saying now is contradicted by everything he said before...
)
That is precisely the sort of background (particularly in a Westerner) one would want in a terrorist recruit.
ETA:
And BTW, this bit from his notebook in the list of things he had learned; " VIP security infiltration" sure sounds like training for terrorist operations to me....
He claims he was "new to Islam" when he converted to the religion two years earlier....
He claims he was "largely uneducated in the ways of the world" when he, by his own admission, (admissions he made long before he set foot in Gitmo)
*Spent three months in Pakistan receiving military training which he then put to use , firing "hundreds of bullets" in military actions.
* kept a notebook to document his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
" I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]"
(Hicks has sort of Mitt Romney problem....Everything he's saying now is contradicted by everything he said before...
)That is precisely the sort of background (particularly in a Westerner) one would want in a terrorist recruit.
Strop you need to bear in mind the relationship between Al Qaeda and The Taliban that existed at that time. Al Qaeda provided both foreign fighters, and training for it's military, (as well as some financial support) to the Taliban regime for it's fight with the Northern Alliance. (This is why Hicks would have met OBL at Taliban training camps) In exchange, the Taliban gave Al Qaeda free run of the country and sanctuary to plan and train fighters for it's own international terrorist operations. To a large extent, The Taliban regime had become dependent on Bin Ladin. (Which is why Mullah Omar couldn't turn him over to us.)you're confusing the Taliban, (USA's supported "freedon fighters") with Al Qaeda.
ETA:
And BTW, this bit from his notebook in the list of things he had learned; " VIP security infiltration" sure sounds like training for terrorist operations to me....
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim.....
Oh come off it, he couldn't infiltrate his own arse with a banana and a pot of KY.
Two years in a new religion is new to it compared to those who grew up in it....Lord Jim wrote: It ALL contradicts the claims he made in his book, thus completely destroying his credibility....
He claims he was "new to Islam" when he converted to the religion two years earlier....
If those are "the ways of the world" I'd hate to live in your world....Lord Jim wrote:He claims he was "largely uneducated in the ways of the world" when he, by his own admission, (admissions he made long before he set foot in Gitmo)
*Spent three months in Pakistan receiving military training which he then put to use , firing "hundreds of bullets" in military actions.
* kept a notebook to document his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
" I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]"
I do not disagree about Romney...Lord Jim wrote:(Hicks has sort of Mitt Romney problem....Everything he's saying now is contradicted by everything he said before...
A useless thick Bogan? yeah sure...Lord Jim wrote:That is precisely the sort of background (particularly in a Westerner) one would want in a terrorist recruit.
What, like the USA did?Lord Jim wrote:Strop you need to bear in mind the relationship between Al Qaeda and The Taliban that existed at that time. Al Qaeda provided both foreign fighters, and training for it's military, (as well as some financial support) to the Taliban regime
Lord Jim wrote:And BTW, this bit from his notebook in the list of things he had learned; " VIP security infiltration" sure sounds like training for terrorist operations to me....
Oh come off it, he couldn't infiltrate his own arse with a banana and a pot of KY.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Meanwhile, what the Hick's supporters are forgetting is that there is/was a neutral third organization, of no government affiliation, assigned to regularly inspect the Gitmo compound from day one. That is the: Red Cross/ Red Cresent who answer directly to the Geneva Convention;
The Red Cross has constantly interviewed detainees to follow up on thier treatment, and have not reported on any 'chemical torture' that they could have heard about first hand from the inmates themselves.What the Red Cross Is
An International Public Conference was called at Geneva, Switzerland, in 1863, which, though it had not an official character, brought together representatives from a number of governments. At this conference a treaty was drawn up, afterwards remodeled and improved, which twenty five governments have signed.
The treaty provides for the neutrality of all sanitary supplies, ambulances, surgeons, nurses, attendants, and sick or wounded men, and their safe conduct, when they bear the sign of the organization, vis: the Red Cross.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22125/
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Cough, cough
You've gone rather quiet Lo.
What's that?Red Cross Finds Detainee Abuse in Guantánamo
By NEIL A. LEWIS
Published: November 2004
WASHINGTON, Nov. 29 - The International Committee of the Red Cross has charged in confidential reports to the United States government that the American military has intentionally used psychological and sometimes physical coercion "tantamount to torture" on prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.
The finding that the handling of prisoners detained and interrogated at Guantánamo amounted to torture came after a visit by a Red Cross inspection team that spent most of last June in Guantánamo.
The team of humanitarian workers, which included experienced medical personnel, also asserted that some doctors and other medical workers at Guantánamo were participating in planning for interrogations, in what the report called "a flagrant violation of medical ethics."
Doctors and medical personnel conveyed information about prisoners' mental health and vulnerabilities to interrogators, the report said, sometimes directly, but usually through a group called the Behavioral Science Consultation Team, or B.S.C.T. The team, known informally as Biscuit, is composed of psychologists and psychological workers who advise the interrogators, the report said.
The United States government, which received the report in July, sharply rejected its charges, administration and military officials said.
The report was distributed to lawyers at the White House, Pentagon and State Department and to the commander of the detention facility at Guantánamo, Gen. Jay W. Hood. The New York Times recently obtained a memorandum, based on the report, that quotes from it in detail and lists its major findings.
It was the first time that the Red Cross, which has been conducting visits to Guantánamo since January 2002, asserted in such strong terms that the treatment of detainees, both physical and psychological, amounted to torture. The report said that another confidential report in January 2003, which has never been disclosed, raised questions of whether "psychological torture" was taking place.
The Red Cross said publicly 13 months ago that the system of keeping detainees indefinitely without allowing them to know their fates was unacceptable and would lead to mental health problems.
The report of the June visit said investigators had found a system devised to break the will of the prisoners at Guantánamo, who now number about 550, and make them wholly dependent on their interrogators through "humiliating acts, solitary confinement, temperature extremes, use of forced positions." Investigators said that the methods used were increasingly "more refined and repressive" than learned about on previous visits.
"The construction of such a system, whose stated purpose is the production of intelligence, cannot be considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment and a form of torture," the report said. It said that in addition to the exposure to loud and persistent noise and music and to prolonged cold, detainees were subjected to "some beatings." The report did not say how many of the detainees were subjected to such treatment.
Asked about the accusations in the report, a Pentagon spokesman provided a statement saying, "The United States operates a safe, humane and professional detention operation at Guantánamo that is providing valuable information in the war on terrorism."
It continued that personnel assigned to Guantánamo "go through extensive professional and sensitivity training to ensure they understand the procedures for protecting the rights and dignity of detainees."
The conclusions by the inspection team, especially the findings involving alleged complicity in mistreatment by medical professionals, have provoked a stormy debate within the Red Cross committee. Some officials have argued that it should make its concerns public or at least aggressively confront the Bush administration.
The International Committee of the Red Cross, which is based in Geneva and is separate from the American Red Cross, was founded in 1863 as an independent, neutral organization intended to provide humanitarian protection and assistance for victims of war.
Much more at link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/polit ... .html?_r=1
You've gone rather quiet Lo.
Bah!
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Bathroom break...
Where's the chemical torture, then?
Oh, and Hicks didn't know about it by '04, really? Not til he was released and hearing hearsay, Hmmmm?
Where's the chemical torture, then?
Oh, and Hicks didn't know about it by '04, really? Not til he was released and hearing hearsay, Hmmmm?
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =102851813
The International Committee of the Red Cross found that medical professionals helped interrogate terrorism suspects who were tortured in overseas CIA prisons, calling it a "gross breach of medical ethics."
A newly revealed report from the ICRC found that medical personnel monitored prisoners and advised interrogators on how much abuse the prisoners could take.
Experts say the medical ethics issues raised by the CIA torture allegations are about power and conflicting loyalties, as well as violations of the physician's oath to "do no harm."
The ICRC report was based on statements from 14 prisoners who were held in CIA prisons overseas before being sent to the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in 2006. The prisoners said that medical personnel were on hand when they were stripped naked, beaten, shackled for days in "stress positions" and subjected to the practice of controlled drowning, commonly known as waterboarding.
Red Cross investigators wrote that one job of the health workers was apparently to monitor prisoners' vital signs during torture. In one case of controlled drowning, "it was alleged that health personnel actively monitored a detainee's oxygen saturation using what, from the description of the detainee of a device placed over the finger, appeared to be a pulse oxymeter," the report said.
In some cases, the Red Cross said, health personnel advised interrogators to stop procedures that threatened to do permanent damage to the detainees, but only to keep them from being so impaired that the interrogations would have to end.
Bah!
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
In any case that is still not the fundamental issue of abandonment by his country.
His situation has been poorly handled and it will only get worse for the Australian Government.
I haven't seen you counter my claim.
His situation has been poorly handled and it will only get worse for the Australian Government.
I haven't seen you counter my claim.
Bah!
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
All that, and no specific mention of mefloquine, which is what we're discussing.
You're not countering my claim either.
...just obfuscating.
You're not countering my claim either.
...just obfuscating.
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
It's your turn to provide the requested evidence I believe Lo.
How was this situation not appallingly handled by the Australian Government?
Hint -my position.is that the Australian Government dropped the ball big time on David Hicks and have fucked their credibility.
All you are providing is pathetic American excuses for an alleged crime which is NOT what I have ever been saying was the crux of my issues with the handling of this matter.
You have done nothing to sway my position, which remains as originally stated.
How was this situation not appallingly handled by the Australian Government?
Hint -my position.is that the Australian Government dropped the ball big time on David Hicks and have fucked their credibility.
All you are providing is pathetic American excuses for an alleged crime which is NOT what I have ever been saying was the crux of my issues with the handling of this matter.
You have done nothing to sway my position, which remains as originally stated.
Bah!
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Should have worked him over until he'd been squeezed dry (forget chemicals, how about a blowtorch), then just cut his throat and tossed the body out with the rest of the garbage. Problem solved.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Wow Strop...
You seem to be wanting to go to some extraordinary lengths to make excuses for this guy, and avoid acknowledging what a flagrant liar he is....
First of all, presumably before he actually converted to Islam, he spent some time learning about it so his familiarity with the religion would pre-date even the two years he had been a member of the faith.
Secondly, in what context is being a part of something for two years fairly characterized as being "new" to it? If I had learned how to speak French two years ago, (God forbid) no one would say I was "new to the French language". If I had joined the Mafia two years ago, no one would say I was new to the Mafia. If I had started recording rap music two years ago, no one would say I was "new" to rap music....
Nice try...
Strop you know very well, that context is key...
In his book, he wasn't talking about "the ways of the world" in terms of knowing which wine to goes best with what meat, or which fork one is to use with which course...
He was obviously talking about "the ways of the of the world" in reference to what he said next, in the very same sentence: "get access to such supposedly secret camps planning acts of terror?"
And in that context, all of the training he received, by his own earlier admission, is right on point:
his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
" I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]"
He was most certainly NOT "uneducated" in the ways of that world.... In fact according to his own words, his education was quite extensive...
Well I can't really respond to that, because it isn't really an argument. I guess it's just an ad hominem characterization to try buttress the idea that the Traitor Hicks was some sort of victim or dupe. I'm more interested in looking at he actually did, and what he himself said he had learned how to do.
First, the US never supported The Taliban. Beginning in the late 70's, The US supported the Mujaheddin in their struggle first against the Soviet backed Marxist government, and then against the Soviets themselves, but the Taliban was only one small faction of that overall coalition. they didn't really come into their own as an organization till 1994, long after the US had (unwisely) walked away from the region.
But secondly, (and more importantly) what possible relevance does what the US did or did not do re Afghanistan and the struggle to eject the Soviets from the late 70's to the late 80's have to do with what The Traitor Hicks did from 1999 to 2001?
Seems to me that the obvious answer to that question is "none whatsoever"...Frankly that comment of yours looks to me like an attempt at a diversion to change the subject, rather than a response to the point I made...
The guy says he was trained in "VIP security infiltration" and then tries to claim he knew nothing about terrorism. That claim, based on his own earlier words, is obviously false, (unless of course you think he was trained in "VIP security infiltration" for the purpose of having his picture taken with them or getting their autographs...)
Strop, I have to say old darling, that overall that was a pretty disappointing performance of yours responding to the evidence I laid on the table to show that The Traitor Hicks was telling outrageous lies in his book, therefore destroying his credibility...
A collection of really weak arguments, (like "Two years in a new religion is new to it compared to those who grew up in it.") ad hominems, (like "I'd hate to live in your world", "A useless thick Bogan", "couldn't infiltrate his own arse with a banana and a pot of KY") and diversions to try to change the subject , ( like "What, like the USA did?")
The really funny thing to me about that is this...
I know you well enough to know, that if this were some other topic, and somebody else had responded to to substantive, evidence supported points that you had made, the way you responded to me, (weak arguments, ad hominems, diversions) you would be the first one to call them on it....
And rightly so....
It really is not like you to resort to these sorts of tactics...
The only thing I can figure is, that you so want the narrative of this story to be about Gitmo rather than The Traitor Hicks, (and that in order for that narrative to work Hick's actions have to minimized, and his current claims of being some sort of naive victim have to be embraced and deemed credible) that it has affected your objectivity.
You seem to be wanting to go to some extraordinary lengths to make excuses for this guy, and avoid acknowledging what a flagrant liar he is....
I'm sorry, where is the part where he says, "New to Islam compared to people who grew up in it" I assure you I didn't deliberately leave it out...Two years in a new religion is new to it compared to those who grew up in it....
First of all, presumably before he actually converted to Islam, he spent some time learning about it so his familiarity with the religion would pre-date even the two years he had been a member of the faith.
Secondly, in what context is being a part of something for two years fairly characterized as being "new" to it? If I had learned how to speak French two years ago, (God forbid) no one would say I was "new to the French language". If I had joined the Mafia two years ago, no one would say I was new to the Mafia. If I had started recording rap music two years ago, no one would say I was "new" to rap music....
Nice try...
Oh please...If those are "the ways of the world" I'd hate to live in your world....
Strop you know very well, that context is key...
In his book, he wasn't talking about "the ways of the world" in terms of knowing which wine to goes best with what meat, or which fork one is to use with which course...
He was obviously talking about "the ways of the of the world" in reference to what he said next, in the very same sentence: "get access to such supposedly secret camps planning acts of terror?"
And in that context, all of the training he received, by his own earlier admission, is right on point:
his training in weapon use, explosives, and military tactics, in which he wrote that guerilla warfare involved "sacrifice for Allah". He took extensive notes on, and made sketches of, various weaponry mechanisms and attack strategies (including Heckler & Koch submachine guns, the M16 assault rifle, RPG-7 grenade launcher, anti-tank rockets, and VIP security infiltration).[31] Letters to his family detailed his training:
" I learnt about weapons such as ballistic missiles, surface to surface and shoulder fired missiles, anti aircraft and anti-tank rockets, rapid fire heavy and light machine guns, pistols, AK47s, mines and explosives. After three months everybody leaves capable and war-ready being able to use all of these weapons capably and responsibly. I am now very well trained for jihad in weapons some serious like anti-aircraft missiles.[32]"
He was most certainly NOT "uneducated" in the ways of that world.... In fact according to his own words, his education was quite extensive...
A useless thick Bogan? yeah sure...
Well I can't really respond to that, because it isn't really an argument. I guess it's just an ad hominem characterization to try buttress the idea that the Traitor Hicks was some sort of victim or dupe. I'm more interested in looking at he actually did, and what he himself said he had learned how to do.
Two points on that...What, like the USA did?
First, the US never supported The Taliban. Beginning in the late 70's, The US supported the Mujaheddin in their struggle first against the Soviet backed Marxist government, and then against the Soviets themselves, but the Taliban was only one small faction of that overall coalition. they didn't really come into their own as an organization till 1994, long after the US had (unwisely) walked away from the region.
But secondly, (and more importantly) what possible relevance does what the US did or did not do re Afghanistan and the struggle to eject the Soviets from the late 70's to the late 80's have to do with what The Traitor Hicks did from 1999 to 2001?
Seems to me that the obvious answer to that question is "none whatsoever"...Frankly that comment of yours looks to me like an attempt at a diversion to change the subject, rather than a response to the point I made...
Well there's another one of those ad hominems that I don't really see as a response...Oh come off it, he couldn't infiltrate his own arse with a banana and a pot of KY.
The guy says he was trained in "VIP security infiltration" and then tries to claim he knew nothing about terrorism. That claim, based on his own earlier words, is obviously false, (unless of course you think he was trained in "VIP security infiltration" for the purpose of having his picture taken with them or getting their autographs...)
Strop, I have to say old darling, that overall that was a pretty disappointing performance of yours responding to the evidence I laid on the table to show that The Traitor Hicks was telling outrageous lies in his book, therefore destroying his credibility...
A collection of really weak arguments, (like "Two years in a new religion is new to it compared to those who grew up in it.") ad hominems, (like "I'd hate to live in your world", "A useless thick Bogan", "couldn't infiltrate his own arse with a banana and a pot of KY") and diversions to try to change the subject , ( like "What, like the USA did?")
The really funny thing to me about that is this...
I know you well enough to know, that if this were some other topic, and somebody else had responded to to substantive, evidence supported points that you had made, the way you responded to me, (weak arguments, ad hominems, diversions) you would be the first one to call them on it....
And rightly so....
It really is not like you to resort to these sorts of tactics...
The only thing I can figure is, that you so want the narrative of this story to be about Gitmo rather than The Traitor Hicks, (and that in order for that narrative to work Hick's actions have to minimized, and his current claims of being some sort of naive victim have to be embraced and deemed credible) that it has affected your objectivity.
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
Fixed it for you.The only thing I can figure is, that you so want the narrative of this story to be about Gitmo the actions your Government didnt take rather than The Traitor Hicks, (and that in order for that narrative to work Hick's actions have to minimized, and his current claims of being some sort of naive victim have to be embraced and deemed credible) all the secondary issues that I and Lo kept raising that it has affected your my objectivity.
I can't believe that you cannot see that it would have helped the whole situation if the Australian Government had treated Hicks in exactly the same way it would have treated anyone else. Who knows, the Australian Government may have even been able to get the case to stick and there would have been no questions about the money made from his book being proceeds from a crime.
As it stands the case has been appallingly handled by my Government, and it isn't over yet. Karma can be a bitch baby, and karma is going to do the Austalian Government slowly.
Bah!
Re: Hick's nice little earner..
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”