Rubato, for a scientist, you seem awfully happy relying on rumor and innuendo, rather than empirical evidence. I find that strange, and it only further undercuts your very shaky and obviously personally-biased position.
BTW, your own article about the alleged payment to the doctor stated, in the article, that there were only allegations of the payment and no proof. Maybe you should try reading what you post, so you don't mischaracterize it.
"rumor and innuendo" in this case includes the testimony of many teammates who have all confessed.
The payment to the doctor was long after their relationship, years after, and cannot be explained except as a payoff.
Try again. Lance was dirty. Only a fool cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against him. If it is true that 'you had to dope to win' in cycling, which I suspect is the case. Then lying is wrong. And he is a liar. The other cyclists eventually fessed up. He was and is a weak egotist and does not care about anyone else.
Guess we'll get to see USADA's case for ourselves finally.
The United States Anti-Doping Agency said Wednesday that Lance Armstrong was at the center of the most sophisticated and professional doping program in recent sports history and that it would soon release details of its findings. * * *
In response to the antidoping agency’s statement, Timothy J. Herman, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, said in an e-mail message that the coming report “will be a one-sided hatchet job — a taxpayer-funded tabloid piece rehashing old, disproved, unreliable allegations based largely on axe-grinders, serial perjurers, coerced testimony, sweetheart deals and threat-induced stories.”
The teammates who came forward and submitted sworn affidavits included some of the best cyclists of Armstrong’s generation: Levi Leipheimer; Tyler Hamilton; and George Hincapie, one of the most respected American riders in recent history. Other teammates who came forward with information were Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Floyd Landis, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie, the agency said.
Their testimony is expected to be the most widespread effort to break the code of silence in cycling that has existed for decades and perpetuated the pervasive doping in the sport.
The agency, which said its file on Armstrong consists of more than a thousand pages of evidence that will be made public Wednesday afternoon on its Web site, will detail the sanctions imposed upon those riders for admitting doping.
I've printed the "reasoned decision" (which is over 200 pages) and skimmed the Hincapie affidavit (all of the documents are now available on the USADA web site). Lots of speculation and innuendo and hearsay in that affidavit. Too bad it can't be cross-examined.
Lots to read, not sure when I'll have time, but plan on wading through it.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Armstrong may have doped and may have lied. And he may not have.
False Testimony by Snitches Results in Wrongful Convictions
The implications of wrongful convictions due to false testimony by snitches is highlighted in a 2005 report by the Center on Wrongful Convictions, Northwestern University of Law, Chicago, which profiles 38 death row defendants, convicted on the basis of false testimony by snitches, whose convictions were later overturned. According to the Center’s report, snitch testimony is the leading cause of wrongful conviction in capital cases, which obviously can have devastating results for the criminal justice system as a whole, not to mention its potentially irreversible impact on the innocent defendant, who loses years of his or her life to incarceration, or even life altogether.
Must admit that it had not occurred to me that if a person (or 73 persons) has/have confessed to child molestation, then all the people he/they names as co-molestors must be ipso facto guilty.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Cycling legend Lance Armstrong's team ran "the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping programme the sport has ever seen" according to a report by the United States Anti-Doping Agency.
Usada says it will deliver the full report in the doping case against Armstrong, 41, later on Wednesday.
It contains testimony from 11 of his former US Postal Service team-mates.
He has always denied doping allegations but has not contested Usada's charges.
Armstrong analysis
Matt Slater BBC sports news reporter
"Usada chief executive Travis Tygart promised the evidence against Lance Armstrong and his five co-defendants would be thorough, and he wasn't kidding.
"As requested by the sport's governing body, the UCI, Usada has now sent them its 'reasoned decision' as to how it found the seven-time Tour de France champion guilty of running a systematic doping ring. It has also sent 1,000 pages of eye-witness testimony, lab results, scientific data, emails and financial records, evidence Tygart describes as overwhelming, conclusive and undeniable.
"Cycling's equivalent of War & Peace will also be published on Usada's website later today... it will be gruesome bedtime reading for Lance Armstrong's dwindling band of believers."
Usada chief executive Travis T Tygart said there was "conclusive and undeniable proof" of a team-run doping conspiracy.
The organisation will send a "reasoned decision" in the Armstrong case to the International Cycling Union (UCI), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the World Triathlon Corporation.
The UCI now has 21 days to lodge an appeal against Usada's decision with Wada or they must comply with the decision to strip Armstrong, who now competes in triathlons, of his seven Tour de France titles and hand him a lifetime ban.
Armstrong, who overcame cancer to return to professional cycling, won the Tour from 1999 to 2005. He retired in 2005 but returned in 2009 before retiring for good two years later.
In his statement, Tygart said the evidence against Armstrong and his team - which is in excess of 1,000 pages - was "overwhelming" and "includes sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team and its participants' doping activities".
Tygart revealed it contains "direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding".
He also claimed the team's doping conspiracy "was professionally designed to groom and pressure athletes to use dangerous drugs, to evade detection, to ensure its secrecy and ultimately gain an unfair competitive advantage through superior doping practices"
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
So says the press release. Would you expect to to say anything else?
If the quality of all of their evidence is of the same quality of the "evidence" contained in the Hincapie Affidavit, its not a case proven, no matter how hard USADA tries to spin it.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
When a bunch of people are caught out doing something wrong, the easiest thing to say is "Well EVERYONE was doing it"... so the USADA go "What, even Lance Armstrong??" and they go "Yeah him too..."
I'm not sure it's enough to strip him of the titles, especially if "Everyone was doing it" who the hell are you going to give those titles to?
He's retired, it's done... leave the results as they stand. The changes made to the drug and blood doping testing seem to be going quite some way to clean up the game now.
Taking steroids or any other type of PED or drug to cover up use is included in the term "doping" as it is used by most in sports.
I have read a few of the affidavits from riders that don't have an axe to grind (or too much so). The first thing to know about affidavits is that the person who signs it, does not write the affidavit. Instead, it is usually done by the affiant's attorney, but in this case, my guess is that the affidavit was a negotiation between an attorney for the rider and USADA. Since USADA was providing relief/cover/incentive to each of these riders in return for their testimony, it would most certainly want to have a say in how the affidavit reads.
Based on what I read, the riders say they along with Armstrong were mad at getting beaten because they were not taking PEDs. They reluctantly began taking because they felt they had to in order to compete since they all state every other rider they ever came into contact with was taking PEDs. That is their understanding of why Armstrong began taking PEDs. Contrary to the USADA press release, there is no indication that Armstrong was the center of the drug ring. Instead, the riders were expected to get and pay for their own drugs. Some teams assisted with that and some expected the riders to figure it out with only a little guidance. Riders went from team to team, and every team that these riders went to was taking (except one team that was not very competitive). They all indicated that they would prefer to have had clean competition.
Finally, there were plenty of inferences from which the riders understood Armstrong was taking PEDs like everyone else, and there were statements that he was doing things consistent with taking drugs, but I did not see any explicit statement that one of the riders said they saw Armstrong take drugs. I think Leipheimer said Armstrong got him some EPO once, and there was a vague recollection about everyone taking IVs on the bus including Armstrong. I am not surprised that Armstrong would take PEDs since every other rider appears to have been taking them. However, the proof would not be strong enough to prove a criminal case, though it certainly would prevail in an agency arbitration.
The bigger problem is that there is no point to this whole exercise; it does seem like a witch hunt. Strict drug controls are in place now; the culture is changing in riding that, in fact, taking PEDs is cheating and not condoned. For the vast time period of this investigation, such was not the case. Like the Major League Baseball during the 90s, taking PEDs was considered okay and no sanctions were applied for using them. Even as they began testing more in cycling, it was not very good testing and it did not change the culture (in contrast, track and field and many other Olympic sports have had aggressive PED testing for a long time). Baseball got it right -- what happened is done, let's get it right/better going forward. I think this story will be a big yawn for the typical person, and even for many sports fans. It will likely be a few day story at best and Armstrong will go on his way of making lots of money for himself and cancer research.
Armstrong Dope Denial - it was just once and I didn't freewheel.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Is not CP suggesting that if X number of people say that Y person is a total douche-bag, then by the same standard that also is clear evidence that he is a douche-bag?
I may be wrong - it happened once
Meade
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
