Health and cakey strike again..

[alice]

Gob, we are just lucky that the Hatch has no allergies.

I too would want assurances in a school that my child was not at risk of imminent death by being there.

Some peanut allergies are extreme. As Guin pointed out, exposure in air is enough to cause an attack.

Should that allergic child be excluded from school because some kids like peanuts?

I put the worth of the child over the love of a nut.

If the peanut allergy - or indeed any allergy - is that extreme, then the child is going to be exposed to enormous risks throughout their life, and not just in the schoolyard.

- A house can't be made totally peanut residue free every time the growing child wants to visit a friend.
- A town or city can't be made peanut residue free.
- Public transport can't be guaranteed to be peanut residue free.
- staircase railings, supermarket trolleys, any miscellaneous handle - can't be guaranteed
- Shops of any kind - even electrical or clothing shops - can't even be guaranteed (What if the person who tried that top on before you had been eating a kit-kat or other chocolate bar with traces of peanuts?)
- Libraries - even without home baked cakes - can't be guaranteed (what if while I was reading the borrowed book I was eating a muesli bar?)
- hospital waiting rooms - still not guaranteed ...
- ... etc...

It's unreasonable to bubble wrap an entire school or to expect a school or any other environment to be bubblewrapped.
It's unrealistic to expect that everyone at the school will always and at all times be peanut-residue free : What about the kids who came to school with no peanuts but having eaten a peanut muesli or cereal for breakfast, or peanut butter on toast? / What about the parents who pack their own non-allergy prone child's school lunch with something not obviously peanutty without realising that there may be traces of peanut in it - like a Kit Kat bar or something even less obvious? / What about the kids who did their homework while eating something that had peanut residue (or had an evening meal with a peanut base) and some of the peanutty residue (or sppills from their meal) ended up on their school books? /What about rubbish blown in from the street and picked up by kids during a yard cleanup? / etc...

So the child has to be very well educated about their allergy and the consequences etc, and yes, if it is severe enough they may have to be excluded from school. If the allergy was that severe I would without hesitation put the worth of my child over some generalised expectation that everyone else would excude peanuts from their lives whether or not they knew my child or knew of his/her allergy.

In the usual manner a school can assist - the parents can provide the school with the details so that the school is aware of the allergy and can recognise the signs and take immediate action, and if medication is needed the school can be provided with this. Just like the situation with other medical conditions, like asthma, or diabetes, or epilepsy, or other allergies, etc.

Friends can be made aware and in the way that happens with other medical conditions, friends can adapt to the allergy-child's needs and considerations.

But people with allergies have to learn to get through their whole life with that allergy, and the world is not bubblewrapped for their protection.

People/children can have allergies to many other types of food other than peanuts (seafood and seafood products are the immediate ones that come to mind), to certain odours/scents, and to goodness knows what else.

How much should a school be expected to cater for the many and various different medical conditions, including allergies, of the children who attend. And how much should everyone who attends the school for any reason - teachers, other school children, parents, tradesmen, etc - be expected to cater for all the unknown variables in relation to medical conditions, including allergies?


I understand the difficulty parents face regarding food allergies - two of my children's friends have severe allergies - both to peanuts as it happens - and a couple of others have milder but still stressful allergic reactions to certain things (one gets severe migraines as a result of certain scents from perfumes - just standing behind someone in a shopping centre can be enough to trigger it). A couple of my adult friends also have allergies that everyone who knows them is mindful of. So I'm not insensitive or uncaring about these issues. But In all the cases that I've known the responsibility has been on the adults/ parents and the children themselves to be educated and aware, and follow precautions, and if needed, to have medication on hand at all times and/or the relevant identification tags. The responsibility is not on the place they visit or environment they are in.

[Gob]

Except this wasn't at a school, nor was it a children's event, nor does it have anything to do with peanuts...

"We have all these elderly people who come along to these things and love having a chat to each other over a nice cup of tea and a piece of cake. Many of them don't bake themselves any more so this is a real treat for them."

[alice]

Sorry, I was responding to the specific comments regarding schools and peanut allergies.

But the general point I was longwindedly making was that people should be responsible for managing their own allergies, and things like this nice little afternoon tea party should not have to be restricted and bubblewrapped.

[The Hen]

Gob, you stupid piece of arse, I was a fucking kid at one stage.

Should I not go to the library because some mad old cunts having a book reading and indulging on some deadly baking that might kill me?

Fuck that. Fuck you. Let me have the same rights of passage into public building that others do.

If you, and this hoard of selfish biddies reckon you want to fucking eat something that might kill me and many others, do it in your own fucking home where it will have no effect on me.

Capiche?

I hope so.

[Guinevere]

I don't expect most of you to get how severe this problem is unless and until it involves your own family, and I hope it never does. It really takes being immersed in the situation to grasp it, and well-meaning people with just a little bit of knowledge can make things even worse. Here are a few examples I have encountered, with respect to the kids, allergies, and homemade goodies:

1. Brownies are baked. In order to keep them "safe" nuts are only put on half (so "plain" brownies are baked in the same pan as nutted brownies), and the same knife is used to cut the entire pan. Major cross-contamination issue.

2. Christmas cookies are made -- some with nuts, some without. Two plates appear on the table - one nutted, one nut free. It all seems fine, until, after looking around and asking questions, I found out that ALL the cookies came out of the same container. So once again, cross-contamination.

3. Library book cocktail party AT MY OWN HOUSE - someone brings sandwiches which contain finely ground nuts in the filling. You have to bite one to know, and even then its not clear. A piece of paper was set out "has nuts" but it blew away in the wind. My own fault for specifically asking people not to bring food with nuts.

And yes, I adore homemade goodies. I'm a hell of a cook, and an even better baker. I despise mass-market bakery. But I love my boys more than anything, so it doesn't matter.

[Gob]

So the answer is for parents of children with nut allergies to protect their kids by educating them they are not to buy or eat home made cakes, at all in any circumstance, and to educate them that they are not to buy anything other than manufactured cake in plastic wrap, while being aware of ; "warning: made on an assembly line which also processes nut products," on it.

They are not to accept cake off anyone other than their parent, or until their parent has cleared it.

The answer is NOT the banning of the making and selling of home made cakes in all places for all people.

[The Hen]

No. The answer is for public places, such as libraries, (where one goes to reads books and doesn't go for food), not to have any food. Particularly food that may kill someone just by being in the same room as that food.

This is a case for EVERYONE needing to be responsible, not just the person with the severe allergy.

What don't you get about the fact that this could kill them?

How do they know when they go in to return their books that they might die because some pig-headed dickhead (like you for instance) went in and decided to eat peanut butter? How are they meant to take that into account?

They know what they can and can't eat or be around.

THAT IS WHY THEY MAKE SURE THERE ARE NO PEANUT PRODUCTS IN PUBLIC SPACES.

[Gob]

Ridiculous.

People do not die because some one else in a library has eaten peanut butter.

There are peanuts in every corner shop, supermarket, shopping mall. People in parks may be eating peanuts, people walking down the street may be eating peanuts. Most fairs and outdoor events have foods sellers which may be selling peanuts.

It's not about what other people are eating.

When you go to Floiade, go to the stalls there, there will be food stuffs, not made on huge assembly lines, which may or may not contain peanuts.

[The Hen]

Ridiculous.

People do not die because some one else in a library has eaten peanut butter.

There may have been no deaths in a library from this occurring. But there certainly have been in schools when arsehole parents, believing everything will be fine, ignore the warning that have been sent home and let their little "Alan" take along his favourite peanut butter sambos.

Mother blames peanut exposure for son’s death

THE mother of a boy who died from a suspected allergic reaction to peanuts at a Cheltenham preschool has accused the kindergarten of not telling the truth about his death.

Martha Baptist told an inquest into the death of her four-year-old son Alex that she believed exposure to nuts led to his collapse and death on September 15, 2004.

She said the most likely source was a peanut butter sandwich brought by a mother who was on duty at the preschool, Angela Berry.

Mrs Baptist wept as she told the inquest how she had farewelled Alex hours before his death. “He didn’t want me to go,” she said. “I kissed his darling head and off I went.”

She and her husband Nigel are demanding an apology from the Evesham Road Preschool and a full explanation of the circumstances surrounding the death. She said they chose the kindergarten because it had a nut-free policy.

The Baptists were granted an inquest after months of campaigning, including a petition containing almost 4500 signatures, amid concerns from other parents with children who have allergies.

The preschool told the couple that Alex, who had a severe allergy to peanuts, was fed only fruit on the day of his death and did not come into contact with peanuts. Staff told the Baptists that Alex had been happily playing before collapsing without explanation at the sandpit.

An EpiPen, a device that delivers adrenaline in the event of a severe allergic reaction, was mistakenly jabbed into a staff member’s finger in the rush to revive Alex.

Mrs Baptist told yesterday’s Coroners Court hearing that she became aware months after the death that there was another EpiPen at the preschool but it was not used.

“I was told they were not sure about the liability of using the second EpiPen. They considered using it, but decided not to because it belonged to another child,” she said.

Mrs Baptist told the inquest that after a discussion with another mother, she believed that Ms Berry had brought a peanut butter sandwich to the school for her daughter.

But Mrs Baptist admitted she did not know anybody who had seen a peanut butter sandwich at the school on the day of her son’s death, nor anyone who had seen contact between Alex and Ms Berry’s daughter.

Under cross-examination from Aine Magee, counsel for the preschool, Mrs Baptist admitted she had thanked kindergarten staff and parents for their help after the death.

Ms Magee told the inquest that the kindergarten would deny telling Mrs Baptist that a second EpiPen was not used because it feared liability.

The hearing before coroner Audrey Jamieson continues today.

[The Hen]

Ridiculous.

There are peanuts in every corner shop, supermarket, shopping mall. People in parks may be eating peanuts, people walking down the street may be eating peanuts. Most fairs and outdoor events have foods sellers which may be selling peanuts.

It's not about what other people are eating.

Do you HONESTLY think that people with severe allergies are going to be wandering around food/flower festivals and through the shops? They will avoid those places.

I think it is quite reasonable for a person with a severe nut allergy to go to the library in safety.

[Gob]

They can do.

Even if someone there is selling peanut cake with peanut crumble topping, with peanut butter spread on it.

[The Hen]

What part of ... some can not and will die ... escapes you?

[Gob]

The bit where you said "if they were to eat some peanuts".

[The Hen]

OK. Some do not need to eat the nuts to have an anaphylactic shock. skin exposure can do it as well.

What part of the fact that this is a fucking library not a cafe do you not understand.

The ONLY people who should have a right to eat here are staff, and even then it shouldn't be in the main part of the library but in their lunch room.

Why the fuck are people having cakes and scones where there are books?

I hate borrowing books smeared with jam and shite because some people can not stop themselves from eating when reading. If you have to eat and read, read a newspaper, and read it elsewhere.

[Sean]

I think I'll start a campaign to get chocolate banned everywhere too... especially from the vending machine from my local library...

[Guinevere]

Hen is correct on this one. It's a lot more than just eating but other exposures can be as harmful.

[Lord Jim]

Well, if someone has an allergic reaction to peanuts, peanut oil, and anything with peanut products so severe, that the slightest airborne contact will result in shock and possibly death, then they better avoid ball parks, picnic areas, or anywhere in fact that others might be consuming or selling food....

Conversely, we could pass laws mandating that peanuts, peanut oil, and anything else with peanut products only be sold online, and only be consumed in one's home....

Unless of course one happens to live in an apartment, where the peanut fumes could travel though the ventilation system....

And of course even in a private residence, we should prohibit the consuming of peanuts, peanut oil, and anything with peanut products in the back yard or on the terrace, lest the airborne fumes kill the next door neighbor....

Basically, we should treat peanuts, peanut oil, and anything else with peanut products like sarin gas....

[The Hen]

Or ... we could remove an unexpected nasty surprise from a place where people go for books.

Chocolate can be banned as far as I am concerned. I gave up my kilo a week habit 9 weeks ago cold turkey.

[Scooter]

Well, if someone has an allergic reaction to peanuts, peanut oil, and anything with peanut products so severe, that the slightest airborne contact will result in shock and possibly death, then they better avoid ball parks, picnic areas, or anywhere in fact that others might be consuming or selling food....

Bolding added to last bit.

Where it would be reasonably expected that others might be consuming food would be the operative phrase.

That doesn't include a library.

Why people would be consuming food of any kind in a library is beyond me, anyway. I was raised to understand that books and sticky hands didn't mix. If it is apparently ok to be handling library books with sticky hands nowadays, it's hardly unreasonable to say that they shouldn't be sticky with peanut butter, or peanut butter cookies, or fudge made with peanuts. or...

[loCAtek]

A friend of mine has a severe allergy to shellfish; he's known this since he was a child since the allergy was discovered by, not one but two, emergency visits to the hospital where he almost died.

I heard about his allergy after a lunch date, when he asked me what I wanted to have? My first reply was Sushi! I'm a big sushi fan, may have it later... Without any objections, it was off to the Sushi Bar we went. At the table, it seemed to me he was taking an overly-long time looking at the menu, so tactfully I asked, "Looking for something in particular?"

He answered, "Something that's not shellfish, nor eats shellfish; I'm highly allergic. If I eat it, or something that eats it, I could die" [!!!] ...yet, here he was at a Seafood restaurant. I hadn't insisted we lunch at a Sushi Bar, it was just my suggestion since he had asked. He could have said no, with that good of an excuse, but instead he took responsibility for himself.
If a child can't do so, maybe he should wear a Medic Alert bracelet like diabetics or sickle cell anemia carriers, to remind themselves and others?

We teach all our children not to drink detergent or ammonia, because it's a hazard found everywhere. I've not seen signs on janitorial carts in schools to 'Don't drink the cleaning products' because the kids have been taught what to avoid.