USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

[ex-khobar Andy]

But that’s still better than the alternative of them getting a nuclear weapon. Or is there someone here who would actually argue that Iran should have nukes?

Well, being that they have been "just a few weeks away" from getting a nuclear weapon for the last 25 years, I'm not all that concerned. IF they wanted one, they'd have one.

Total agreement. Making a nuclear weapon is not that hard: the Manhattan project did it with 1940s technology; the N Koreans did it a decade or so ago abetted by a Pakistani expert. Iranians certainly possess the knowhow - I suspect that those who do know how to do it have been dragging their heels a little just as Heisenberg has long been rumored to have done.

Their main aim, if they had one, would be for local consumption. They are not, and never have been, foolish enough to take on the Israelis or the Americans. If they had a nuclear capability they would wave it about "I'm the boss here!" in Big Swinging Dick mode.

[Sue U]

I think the U.S. military has achieved what it intended in terms of weakening Iran’s military capability. Of course, it’s just ‘mowing the grass’, it only keeps them down for a while, hopefully five or ten years. But that’s still better than the alternative of them getting a nuclear weapon. Or is there someone here who would actually argue that Iran should have nukes?

Your "take" as usual is idiotic. As I said in another thread, the only thing this war has accomplished is convincing Iran that it legitimately needs a nuclear weapon as a deterrent to US and Israeli attack, or at least providing that excuse for the ruling faction hardliners. Do you know how to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons? You prove that it's unnecessary because you have a region at peace, with interdependent economies that benefit all.

Netanyahu precipitated this war for his own domestic political reasons, some of which have an internal logic but were made more exigent by the Hamas attack on Oct. 7, 2023. Iran is the major state funding source of Hamas and Hezbollah, which do pose genuine threats to Israel's security (here I am not going to get into why they exist in the first place; I am just looking at today's realities). To the extent Hamas and Hezbollah act as agents of Iranian policy, it makes sense to attempt regime change at the top while eliminating the more immediate local threats. But it is apparent that the war in Gaza hasn't eradicated Hamas nor will the war in Lebanon likely end Hezbollah, and with the IRGC and hardliners now firmly in control of Iran -- and Trump cutting a deal with them to get himself out of his own domestic political disaster -- Netanyahu's effort has been a failure all around. We are not just back to where we were in February; literally everything is now substantially worse.

[Burning Petard]

I am ready to argue that Iran should NOT have Nukes. But also ready to argue that France, the Brits, North Korea, and particularly DJ Trump certainly should not have Nukes. I think it is also a dirty little secret that Israel has had them but not very many, probably as long ago as Pakistan. Iran certainly could have had them years ago, just by buying them from Ukraine or Russia black market weapon dealers. The problem with that last option is one the USofA is dealing with now--how to keep the really old individual weapons functional but not unstable.

snailgate.

[liberty]

Many aspects of modern Iranian society, such as women’s education, industrial development, and scientific progress, can be traced back to the reforms implemented under the Shah; his government pushed Iran rapidly into the modern era, even when parts of society resisted those changes. Today, it is likely that some, or even many, of the people who supported the 1979 revolution look back with regret, given the restrictions that followed. Iran is now governed by a fundamentalist Shi’a leadership and its supporters, who represent only about 15 percent of the population, while the vast majority of Iranians hold far more diverse and modern views and oppose the government because of the oppression they experience. So, who said that a minority can't control a majority...Sue?

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think someone's playing with AI . . . or perhaps playing dumb most of the time and just slipped up.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Lib (or someone purporting to be lib) told us

Today, it is likely that some, or even many, of the people who supported the 1979 revolution look back with regret, given the restrictions that followed.

I had an Iranian girlfriend in 1966-7 - definitely the time of the Shah, and I can confirm much more liberated that would be seemly these days. The Shah was an authoritarian monster, but 'frying pan meet fire' is a very old story.

We can do anything with hindsight but I (and probably she, and I hope she survived) would love to know how Iran would have turned out had we allowed Mossadegh to take office as PM in 1953.

[liberty]

I think someone's playing with AI . . . or perhaps playing dumb most of the time and just slipped up.

If one wishes to communicate, one has a responsibility to do so in a way that the receiver can accurately interpret the message. So what does this mean? “Playing dumb most of the time and just slipped up?” And I can assure you, I do not have to play at being dumb; I have it down to a science, but at least I am honest.

Some of my mistakes in my lifetime are monumental, and some I will regret for the rest of my life. But I think that’s just the nature of life for an honest person.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I do not have to play at being dumb; I have it down to a science, but at least I am honest.

Bravo!

[MajGenl.Meade]

If Iran doesn't open that strait, then we'll close it down er er er er er

President Donald Trump says the US Navy will "blockade any and all ships" trying to enter or leave the Strait of Hormuz - a vital shipping route

[Joe Guy]

Trump's plan for making Iran great again....

The solution to Iran blocking ships from passing through the Strait of Hormuz is for the US to block ships from passing through the Strait of Hormuz. And although the US military has completely wiped out all of Iran's defensive capabilities, it could do more damage to the people of Iran if Trump feels like it. And the reason he sent our military there in the first place was to free the people of Iran from their evil leader, whose son has taken over because we killed his father.

So much winning.....

[MajGenl.Meade]

To be fair, all the ships that won't pay $2million will be stopped by Iran.

The ships that do pay Iran $2million will be stopped by the USA

So it's kind of an international joint venture; cooperation writ large. Seems like a war-ending deal to me????????

[Joe Guy]

I'm sure Trump has it all figured out. The US is in good hands. He's playing 4 dimensional chess in the Middle East and the genius of the strategy in his plan is not something non-maga people like us are able to grasp.

[BoSoxGal]

I mentioned earlier in the thread my admiration for Iranian film, and this morning this Jacobin article popped in my feed so I thought I’d share it here:

A Tribute to Iran’s Soulful and Revolutionary Cinema