UK too tolerant?

[Sean]

Would you not want people who were bent on bringing harm to those you loved moved to a place where they did not pose a threat?

Bent on bringing harm, or spewing a lot of hot air?

So I assume that if it were your family you would be happy to wait to find out which it was Scoot. Is that right?

Growing up in England and Ireland I have lived for most of my life under the shadow of terrorism. It'd not something I would wish on anybody. It's easy to pat these people on the head and tell them to run along when you haven't had it directly affect you or your life.

Of course if you have been directly affected Scoot then I apologise and take that back.
I don't think you would be taking the stance you are if you had been affected though...

[Scooter]

So we just rest assured that they are just spewing hot air...

Until they spew something that rises to the level of a threat of violence, yes. That's the price of living in democracy under the rule of law.

(from the safety of Canada,)

Before 9/11, the deadliest terrorist attack in history was executed on Canadian soil. On 9/11 itself, 255 potential flying bombs were diverted from their destinations in the U.S. to Canadian airports, with the entire country gritting its teeth throughout the day until the last plane was on the ground and evacuated without incident. In more recent times, the underwear bomber, had he succeeded, would have brought that plane down somewhere within a radius of 100km from my mother's house. There was also a terrorist plot to detonate several truck bombs and storm buildings, including the Houses of Parliament and targets here in Toronto, and to assassinate the Canadian Prime Minister, which was only foiled because the RCMP had infiltrated the group and managed to substitute an inert substance for the three tonnes of ammonium nitrate they thought they were buying. But even so, at the time I condemned the manner in which the police went about gathering evidence, the conditions of incarceration of the accused, and the fact that the trials were conducted with a court-ordered gag on the media, imposed only after the police had been given free rein to publicize their version of events, and the Prime Minister had risen in Parliament to declare them guilty before the cases were even heard. And even with the retrospective knowledge that the accused were indeed planning the attacks for which they were charged, I stlll maintain my original objections to the shameful way in which the various organs of the state handled the entire affair. Because, as the saying goes, freedom is not free; it comes with the cost that bad guys will do bad things; the alternative is to run the risk that all of the freedoms and rights we have gained will be stomped on until destroyed, much like a carpet of white, new fallen snow on a street is trampled into filthy brown slush.

Sean, is that emotional enough for you?

[Gob]

freedom is not free; it comes with the cost that bad guys will do bad things; the alternative is to run the risk that all of the freedoms and rights we have gained will be stomped on until destroyed,

Why should "all fredoms" be curtailed? And again, why should we not act against those who spread hate and fear?

[Sean]

So we just rest assured that they are just spewing hot air...

Until they spew something that rises to the level of a threat of violence, yes. That's the price of living in democracy under the rule of law.

(from the safety of Canada,)

Before 9/11, the deadliest terrorist attack in history was executed on Canadian soil. In more recent times, the underwear bomber, had he succeeded, would have brought that plane down somewhere within a radius of 100km from my mother's house. There was also a terrorist plot to detonate several truck bombs and storm buildings, including the Houses of Parliament and targets here in Toronto, and to assassinate the Canadian Prime Minister, which was only foiled because the RCMP had infiltrated the group and managed to substitute an inert substance for the three tonnes of ammonium nitrate they thought they were buying. But even so, at the time I condemned the manner in which the police went about gathering evidence, the conditions of incarceration of the accused, and the fact that the trials were conducted with a court-ordered gag on the media, imposed only after the police had been given free rein to publicize their version of events, and the Prime Minister had risen in Parliament to declare them guilty before the cases were even heard. And even with the retrospective knowledge that the accused were indeed planning the attacks for which they were charged, I stlll maintain my original objections to the shameful way in which the various organs of the state handled the entire affair. Because, as the saying goes, freedom is not free; it comes with the cost that bad guys will do bad things; the alternative is to run the risk that all of the freedoms and rights we have gained will be stomped on until destroyed, much like a carpet of white, new fallen snow on a street is trampled into filthy brown slush.

So you have been indirectly rather than directly affected... I see.

Sean, is that emotional enough for you?

I didn't call for emotion. I'm not into childish, tit for tat, 'my terrorists are worse than yours' bullshit.

[Scooter]

why should we not act against those who spread hate and fear?

We should, within the bounds the law allows. I am not seeing any law that was broken here.

So you have been indirectly rather than directly affected... I see.

By this kind of terrorism, yes. If, however, you call being beaten half to death by gay bashers using chains, bats and steel-toed boots a form of terrorism, then I guess you could say I've been directly affected. But I wouldn't say the solution would be to deport Fred Phelps, if he resided here.

I didn't call for emotion. I'm not into childish, tit for tat, 'my terrorists are worse than yours' bullshit.

Then why did you bring it up?

[Sean]

I didn't call for emotion. I'm not into childish, tit for tat, 'my terrorists are worse than yours' bullshit.

Then why did you bring it up?

Careful mate... that sounded almost like Lo...

All I brought up was the difference between living in constant fear of terrorists and not.
Don't you think if I was indulging in a dick-waving contest I would have given some examples? You gave the examples Scoot, not me.

[Scooter]

I was just responding to your use of the word "emotional" a few posts back, as if for me this was nothing but an academic exercise. Perhaps the difference in our perspectives comes from me having lived most of my life in a society that told me I didn't deserve the same rights as those who were wired differently, which causes me to resist any encroachment on those rights for whoever is viewed as the pariah of the week.

[Sean]

Perhaps that is the difference...

My use of the word was not meant to imply any lack of emotion on your part Scoot. I was just describing that particular post as it was closer to home than my previous ones. I would not presume to judge your (or anyone's) level of emotion without actually knowing it.

[rubato]

Freedom of speech exists precisely to protect speech which is offensive to someone. Intellect is supposed to remind us that this is true even when you're the offended party.


Allowing this group of pathetic losers to scream and wave idiotic slogans makes them fools. Reacting makes you one.


Reacting makes you their bitch.

yrs,
rubato

[Bones]

I had a strange fantasy thanks to this thread.

I dreamed there were two groups of protesters screaming their heads off. One the ultra-nationalist / racialists of the UK. The other a throng of pseudo-Islamic shitbaggers who couldn't run a 7/11 to save their asses from first base.

I come in dressed as Uncle Sam, put 'Stars and Stripes Forever' on a bunch of speakers, and start marching around as Uncle Sam.

Everyone starts laughing. I later pull out a flute once 'Three Cheers For The Red, White and Blue..." flute solo is played. Again a bit more laughter. I open up a hot dog stand and start offering cheap hotdogs. Get a lot of customers in no time.

Then something in me snaps.

I have a fellow come by with an uncooked baby pig. I take the pig and put it on a spit. Then I need fuel. A little bit of charcoal. A lighter... and... what's this? Oh, it's a book. Now mind you it's not a holy book. Just some Dr. Laura screed that nobody in their right mind would ever read. I begin tearing the pages off and using it to help ignite the fire.

The Muslim wackos start to go crazy. One of them throws a rock and hits an American tourist just passing through.

It turns out to be this guy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhE1rDuO ... re=related

Then all of a sudden, there are guys that look exactly like him all over the place. However in this case they all have British accents. Maybe a few Aussie ones as well. They start gathering their own army under the music of Ludwig Van Beethoven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KFad63s ... re=related

After gathering several hundred of their own, they along the police decide to rout both sides of the protest and begin anew. The movement spreads throughout the country, into the rural areas, into France, Germany, Italy, and the greater EU. The fundamentalists and fanatics are driven out. The welfare state is dismantled, and the EU is saved.

Oh, and Greece is kicked out.

[Gob]

Bones, you are one strange dude....

[loCAtek]

Hi Bones